Educating Christian Children

A Faith that Works cont. Q&A

Professor: Dr. R.J. Rushdoony

Subject: Conversations, Panels, and Sermons

Lesson: 7-7

Genre: Talk

Track: 7

Dictation Name: RR312D7

Location/Venue:

Year:

…would be thieves and pickpockets. Now how am I going to say to them: “Now you are saved, God bless you, go out and work gainfully.” He said I have to retrain them, and he did. And they are still doing it. I know when I was in New Zealand and Australia, they owned an island offshore somewhere, where they would take their converts, dry them out there, train them in both scripture and in how to work.

Booth did remarkable things in this respect, and while there are things in the present day Salvation Army I am not happy about, it is still doing a great work. Booth said something wonderful, at least I think so, about the church of his day. He said: “The idea with converts is to convert them, and then mummify them so that they sit obediently in the church and are never a problem, and are virtually motionless except for reaching into their wallet when the collection plate goes by.” And he said: “Unfortunately they are a bit too mummified to do even that very well.”

But there are ministries whom we can learn from, or we can participate in. Now, we have our own, Chalcedon does, Diaconal ministries, and we have a few men working in it headed by John Upton, and it is a good way to begin, if you can’t find any other churches to link up with, why, link up with John’s work; but do work towards establishing something locally with other churches. I believe God will bless such an effort mightily. It will not be easy, but it will be blessed.

[Audience Speaker] We have time for a few more.

[Audience Member] Pastor (Pew?) I had a bad incident in a Reformed Church down in Southwestern Ohio where I was just becoming a Calvinist but stepped into a very Calvinistic church that basically kicked me out because I was not TR yet, Totally Reformed. There must be some kind of – I appreciate gridlock, I appreciate being a hardheaded Christian that believes in their Christian core values and a real emphasis in a premium on truth; what about growth coordinate stage? Could you elaborate on that, on making allowances for somebody to grow towards the truth?

[Pastor Fred (Pew?)] Allowances for someone to grow toward truth. I will get a little bit on a pet hobby horse of mine. I think we desperately need to exercise graciousness towards brothers and sisters in the body of Christ. We need to learn that it is the Spirit of God that changes people, and that real change comes slowly. We need to remember that we weren’t always where we are today, and that we would not want someone beating us over the head with a baseball bat saying: “get your act together,” that we would want others to be gracious to us. We talk a lot about the law of God; part of the law of God says ‘do unto others as you would have them do unto you.’ We need to remember that the law of God is not just contained in the Old Testament, it is contained in the New as well, and many of the things that Jesus said, and I think we need to learn to cultivate a very gracious, irenic spirit.

Because we have for so long in the reconstruction movement had to take a stand against the antinomianism against the evangelical culture, I think it is easy for us to become a bit jaded, and want to stamp out all the antinomians physically. (laughter) We don’t do it that way. We need to win people by the graciousness of our spirit, the Spirit of Christ.

Now I don’t in any means say compromise truth; you do not compromise truth. But let’s be gracious with our brothers and sisters as they grow toward that truth.

[Audience Speaker] Yes sir?

[Audience Member] I agree with the need to teach our children in either a homeschool or a Christian school format or situation, my concern is in the Christian school if we were to send our child there- and I know we need to find this out by checking into it ourselves- not being real educated on that would be, how I would know it to see it, what a Christian curriculum would be like in comparison to the public, other than to have prayers throughout the school day, and then perhaps in the homeschool movement is a curriculum that a homeschool parent is receiving, if they have the discernment to know what is a good Christian upbringing, a Christian education; my concern is, do we end up picking a child out of the public school which of course is good, but has the child really benefited that much more by going into a Christian school or a homeschool environment? I guess the question would be to discern the need, to know that the move that we have made is really that more beneficial than if we left them in the public school?

[Audience Speaker] The question has to do with the relative benefit of removing your child from a public government run school and placing them in a Christian and/or schooling or homeschool environment, and to know whether you have done the right thing, and the question was addressed to…?

[Audience Member] Pastor Fred.

[Pastor Fred] I think there are a couple of assumptions that we need to deal with in that question. First of all, is public education, government run education even Biblical? I don’t think it is. I don’t think that the state has any role in the education of our children. Education is directed toward parents, I think the church needs to assist the parents in that. I would say that there is a covenant responsibility that we have as Christian parents to ensure that our children receive the concepts of truth as they are laid out scripture, which the state can never, ever give to them.

I think we often times look at schools as simply centers of learning that give out information- they are much more than that. The attitudes that your children adopt are formed with the group that they are with. The teachers that your children have impart far more than information, they impart a world and life view. I would say that it takes work, but even if you have to pull your children out to homeschool them and you don’t feel qualified, you can hook up with other homeschoolers, and you can supplement what you don’t know with what they do know. We have a tremendous homeschooling support group here in our church, and there are several other homeschooling support groups here in the Cleveland area, and I would say that the worst one is infinitely better than any public school in this city.

[Audience Member] Amen.

[Audience Speaker] Yes?

[Audience Member] There seems to be a… well, not seems to be, but there is obviously a very strong understanding that the public school systems are I think you used the phrase ‘satanically energized’ and anti Biblical, anti Christ in orientation; I don’t recall hearing this week specifically addressed whether or not Christians can function, or what function Christian teachers can have within the public school system. I think we are all aware, and Mr. (Pew?) mentioned that sometimes the arguments for the public schools is that there are many Christians within its system; what is the function of a Christian within that school system, finding themselves there 15-20-30 years on a practical level functioning within the system; we are saying that the system is anti Biblical, anti Christian, and I certainly wouldn’t disagree with that, but what for these people, these Christian teachers?

[Audience Speaker] The question is regarding Christian school teachers who are in public schools, what is their role, what is their function, and what is it that they are to do given that the system itself is anti Biblical, anti Christ?

[Pastor Fred (Pew?)] I came out of college, I taught school for a year and a half, worked here in half of my life until I taught in public schools; I taught 7-8th grade music. There is no creature on earth like 7-8th graders. (laughter) At least that was my thought back then. I have come through three of my own now, and my views have been modified greatly for the better. At the very best, a Christian can only see themselves as a missionary if they go into the public school system, at the best. However, if I were faced with the issue of going back into the public school as a teacher, I would have to really look long and hard at that, because I would have to be prepared to do one of two things; I would either have to be prepared to be fired, or to compromise my integrity. Because if I know that I hold truth in my hands when I hold the scripture, and I do not give it to the students, then I compromise my integrity as a man of God. If I go in and say: “I will not compromise my integrity, I will teach the truth.” I have to be prepared to lose my job.

[Audience Speaker] We have time for two more questions… I’ll take one from this side, I haven’t been over here for a while. Any from over here? Yes, Abbot?

[Audience Member] …?... I wondered if there were any remaining practical suggestions for those of us who are dealing, let’s say with Christian educators, Christian parents, who are at all assorted levels of thought, from antinomianism to Reformed; do you have any practical suggestions about how to function out there, and take it from a theoretical knowledge, upholding the truth, and some practical ways that we can get parents on the same page, fellow educators on the same page in terms of dominion principles for the students that we are charged with.

[Audience Speaker] And you want the question addressed to…?

[Audience Member] Well, whomever.

[Audience Speaker] Ah. Moderators choice. (laughter) The question is specific to features in Christian schools, they are dealing with a wide variety of theological positions, and how they practically implement dominion principles, Reformed thought, Covenantal thought, etc. I am going to ask both of you to address that, Dr. Rushdoony would you like to address that first?

[Rushdoony] What was it more specifically?

[Audience Speaker] Specifically, what are practical suggestions for a Christian school teacher in a Christian school to advance the Reformed faith where you have an eclectic sort of emphasis, within that school.

[Rushdoony] A diverse student population?

[Audience Speaker] Right.

[Rushdoony] Having a diverse student population is an opportunity. It is an opportunity wherein, however, the school administration has the first responsibility by making clear to the parents that: “This is where our school stands.” Then there are no surprises, they cannot come back and say: “Well, the teacher has been teaching this or that doctrine, and I don’t hold with that.” But if you spell it out, they read it, they sign a statement of agreement that they are putting their child in a school that holds to certain premises- and those premises can be general and broad, but they do need to be spelled out to a certain degree- then the parent cannot complain. There are no surprises.

Then too, the teacher must recognize that the basic opportunity is not to make a Presbyterian or a Baptist or what have you out of the child, but to present them with a Christian world and life view. So they must see the primacy of the faith over the church and the school in that particular case.

There is another problem, it is a growing one, perhaps you haven’t experienced it, but in a number of parts of the country it is a major problem now. In the public schools the major problem the teachers face is from the parents. The parents back up their children no matter what, and they will not allow the teacher to call attention to the very serious faults in the boy or girl, or their misconduct. Well, now some of the 60’s rebels are parents, and they are Christian; and yet there is enough of the 60’s spirit in them so that more and more Christian schools are having problems with parents who feel that if their child is restrained in any way or criticized it is a restriction on their Christian liberty, and they are becoming a real problem to Christian schools. I think there it’s a problem where the superintendent and the pastor have to work with the parents at some of the parent-teacher meetings to tell them: “You cannot put your child here in the premise that ‘my child is always right’. This is a real problem, and it is threatening the future of the Christian schools. The parents don’t want their child disciplined, they are insistent that their child is always in the right. It has to be stopped.

[Pastor Fred (Pew?)] I whole heartedly agree with what Dr. Rushdoony said in that regard. We had an experience; our second daughter just graduated from high school this year, they go to- our older girls- go to a Christian high school. My first daughter graduated two years ago; at the graduation exercises the headmaster stood before the audience and made the statement: “This is a formal academic affair. We want you to conduct yourself in a matter fitting of that.” He was speaking to the audience. Now, if you have been to, just your ordinary graduation, it is one of the most raucous things you’ve ever seen. Well, the first year it went very well. This year he said the same thing, and as the graduates came across to receive their diploma, the hooting and hollering that I heard from parents- I was aghast. And I realized: “That’s my generation.” I grew up in the 60’s. I am a Vietnam War era man, anti authoritarian. We are reaping what we sowed. It is going to be a long road back, but we can’t give up the fight, we have got to keep pressing the authority of God, His authority as He delegates it through human institutions.

Let me say something about the whole issue of working as a Christian school teacher among other teachers and administrators who are not Reformed- understand that I was on a school board a few years ago where it was anything but Reformed- it so happened that the headmaster that they hired was Reformed, I couldn’t believe they actually hired a Reformed man as headmaster, it was the only reason I agreed to go on the board. I thought there was hope. But one of the things that I found out was that where the power lies is crucial. If the people that are ultimately in charge are not Reformed, you really have got to be careful in the way that you make your approaches. I think for a teacher who is Reformed, you have got to show yourself to be above board, to be above reproach, the best that you can be, to make them listen to you. The administration already considers themselves above you, they don’t think that you have anything to say to them; and I think that you have to be very careful, supportive in every way you can be, so that you can gain a hearing with them to put across to them the principles of the Reformed faith. Suggest some reading to them, give them things from other educators who are Reformed; but really be gracious in the way that you do it.

[Audience Speaker] This concludes our formal question and answer period, and also the conference, the fourth annual conference on Revival, Reformation, and Reconstruction. On behalf of the Ohio Reconstruction Society, the Association of Free Reformed Churches, those churches and ministries that have been involved in sponsoring this conference and specifically Grace Covenant Church, Pastor Pew, and all the individuals who have worked so hard and assiduously to put this together, we want to salute you. We also want to thank our speakers, Dr. Rushdoony, Joseph (McOllif?), Greg Hoffman and Fred Pew for sharing the riches of their life and all that God has given them with us. I also want to remind you again as we depart, there is literature on the left and on the right over here if you want information either on the Association of Free Reformed Churches or the National Reformed Association, there is material that is there, a sign up sheet, (Harry Coffman?) has his books over on the right, I want to let you know, remind you, that we will be having our quarterly Summer Session of the Ohio Reconstruction Society meeting at the Ashland Theological Seminary on the 28th of July, we will get a letter out to you on that- Ross Justice will be speaking to us then. Also, in October at a place yet undetermined the fall quarterly session of the Ohio Reconstruction Society will be meeting, Reverend Andrew Sandlin will be in town, and he will be speaking to us on the theme Calvinists out of the Closet (laughter) and I will be addressing the same subject that same evening. Will you please stand as we give benediction unto our Lord?

Father, we thank you for this day that you have given us, we thank you for grace upon grace and the new mercies that have been ours this day. We thank you for the blessings of the Lord that have overtaken us in the way, the blessing of the Lord that addeth no sorrow and that maketh not ashamed. We pray that today faith would rise to the fore and all that are gathered here, Lord God, that we would see that the kingdom and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven and earth has been given to the saints of the most high God. Lord Jesus, that with the weapons of our warfare that have been given to us this day, Lord we would rise and strike against sin and iniquity within and without the church, we would strike against the indolents and the ignorant, and all the besetting sins that have caused this generation in America to be mocked by those who hate you, who are covenant breakers and truth breakers. And Lord this generation, and our children, and our children children, would not only walk in the fear of God, but that Lord the fear of God would again pervade this land; in Jesus name, amen.

[Audience Speaker] If I could say something just briefly; for those of you who are from out of town, if you are planning to stay overnight, Dr. Rushdoony will be speaking here at our morning service at 10:45 tomorrow morning, Joseph (Mcollif?) is going to be speaking at Shiloh Christian church in Painesville- what time is the service there? At 10 a.m. tomorrow morning. So if you are here from out of town we would welcome you, I know Phil’s church would welcome you as well. Thank you so much for coming and for making it a great conference this year.