Educating Christian Children

The

Royal Priesthood Q&A

 

Professor: Dr. R.J. Rushdoony

Subject: Conversations, Panels, and Sermons

Lesson: 2-7

Genre: Talk

Track: 2

Dictation Name: RR312A2

Location/Venue:

Year:

[Audience Speaker] …will not because we have not heard it, but because of (?) procedure do with the transition from the Old to the New Testament phrase regarding ‘priesthood,’ specifically the transition from the blood sacrifice that the priest would offer to the sacrifice of praise. Dr. Rushdoony?

[Rushdoony] I’m going to have to have you repeat that question to me, one of the privileges of age is to be hard of hearing. If you will repeat it…?

[Audience Speaker] Right, he wanted to know how we could justify the priests in the New Testament offering praise as a sacrifice as opposed to the blood sacrifice that the priest offered in the Old Testament.

[Rushdoony] How can the sacrifice of praise be justified as against the sacrifice of blood in the Old Testament? Well, it’s very simple, if God states that that is what we are to offer, we offer it. So, the first thing we do with the Word of God is to obey it; then we hope with time we will understand it. So there is a lot that I, after 79 years, do not understand, but I try to obey it.

Now, a sacrifice of praise means, in part, that you and I experience a great many things that are deeply painful. We don’t enjoy them in the least. We are deeply hurt by what has happened. So then we offer the sacrifice of praise; we thank God for what has happened, because we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to His purpose.

I was quite a young man when I heard an older man pray at a meeting, and it was a shocking expression and left me in some mental turmoil; he said in his prayer: “We thank Thee for all our yesterdays.” I didn’t think I could pray that. Then I realized that until I could pray that, there would be a serious lack in my life. I had to believe that God sent whatever came for His sovereign purpose, that I was to praise Him and thank Him for it. That is the sacrifice of praise. So, when life has kicked you in the shins, you have to say: “Lord, I don’t like saying it, but I’ve got to thank you for it. I must have needed it, or it has a purpose in terms of my future, or time and eternity.”

[Audience Speaker] Thank you, our next question please. Yes?

[Audience Member] We’ve established the (?) tonight between public school and Christian education, I think the Christian school, and I wonder if you could comment on the risk that we take, to simply Christianize secular curriculum, secular (?), secular methodology, and simply inject Christianity into a Curriculum, but not in any other way. If either would comment I would be happy.

[Audience Speaker] The question is concerning the Christianization or the attempt to Christianize secular curriculum in Christian schools, and the dangers that posits. Harry, would you like to…?

[Harry] If I understand what you are asking I would simply refer to my analogy of putting a chaplain in a house of prostitution, a Christian chaplain may certainly do some good, but long term, immediately and long term, it doesn’t confront the immorality of the institution. We don’t seek to baptize non-Christianity with a sprinkling of Christianity, and somehow pacify the consciences of those who are in rebellion toward God, we seek to convert the individuals in the institutions, and given our own cultural scenario it just seems to me the more effective means of drawing the lines and demonstrating the antithesis that exists, is for Christians to withdraw themselves from the anti-Christian schools and let them have them, and let’s set ourselves toward rebuilding, or building. Christian institutions. It’s like- you know, I would rather be in a foxhole with someone that I know is shooting the same way I am, than wondering if I am going to be getting bullets from the side.

You know, God will use a crooked stick to accomplish His purposes, and God will certainly bring about good according to His sovereign will for a Christian man or woman to be in a anti Christian institution, but the thing we are trying to do is to see the abolition of these institutions, and the restoration of Christian institutions. Does that address what you are getting at?

[Audience Member] I appreciate what you are saying; what I am saying is that a purely Christian institution that is using testing devices and mentoring devices and grading systems (?) that we have all learned through public school, in other words methodology rather than curriculum, we are using methodology in education that we learned because we have come up in the 20th century educational system. And I was just wondering if you could address the challenge there for…?

[Harry] Right, Dr. J. Adams has written a book Back to the Blackboard and it has been years since I have read it; one of the things that I remember in that book, and a deep impression it made on me was his challenge, and I think he puts it this way, that we need to rethink down to the very reason why we have bathrooms the way that we do in the models of the schools that we create. And of course he was being hyperbolic there, but the point is we need to go back and rethink for the very reason you are saying, that we are not going to escape the influence of our age, and of our society, and the fact that most all of us adults were raised and brought up through the public schools. So that is the test that we have to set about, of beginning at the beginning, and rethinking these things. Dr. Rushdoony’s Philosophy of the Christian Curriculum is a good starting point, Douglas Wilson’s Recovering the Lost Tools of Learning is another good starting point, and there are a number of other good books that wrestle with these things, but we have got to come back, and those called of God to be involved in education, be it on a parental level or vocationally as a teacher or administrator or whatever, need to begin to think the respective areas of calling specifically in terms of Biblical assumptions. And I wouldn’t think it would be a bad thing for a teacher to sit down and go through the Ten Commandments one at a time, and ask: “How does the 1st Commandment apply in my classroom? The Second Commandment? The Third Commandment? The Fourth Commandment?” etc, and work out the implications in a very specific way.

[Audience Speaker] Our next question please. Yes?

[Audience Member] To proceed with the comment that he made, my experience in the last two years has been a student at (Ashland?) Theological Seminary, and if I were to give a very brief criticism of that experience, it would be in harmony with your question, that what happens in the seminary is that they purport to give a Christian education, the contradiction to this that it is being ministered by secular academic methods, and it is a severe problem, and I appreciate your comment, if I can echo that question that was previously asked, to that particular principle.

[Audience Speaker] And to whom would you like to address that question?

[Audience Member] Whoever would like to deal with it. (laughter)

[Audience Speaker] The question is akin to what was asked previously but applied to the Christian Seminary which is dedicated in theory to be teaching Christian truth, but perhaps using methodologies that are unchristian. Dr. Rushdoony, would you like to address that?

[Rushdoony] Could you repeat it?

[Audience Speaker] Sure, the question concerns Christian seminaries that are dedicated to teaching truth, yet use unchristian methodologies and principles.

[Rushdoony] Well, of course they are on the road to modernism if they do that, and nowadays it is hard to find a faithful seminary anywhere. It poses a problem today, in that what we have seen in recent years, in the past twenty years is that some of the most successful pastors have not had seminary training. The seminary training has proven to be a handicap for the young men who have it, because they are schooled into wrong ways of thinking. This does present a crisis for the church. In the Colonial era there were no seminaries, and the young man who wanted to go into the ministry would go and study under a prominent pastor, for example someone like Jonathan Edwards, or Taylor, or someone else. Some of them would have twenty or more young men who would be students under them, he would teach them Greek and Hebrew, and doctrine, Bible, and they would help in the church work, the visitation and more. That was a good system, and certainly it served the church well. The first seminary in this country was Princeton, it remained faithful longer than most have, but it went down the tubes in the 1920’s. Harvard was created as a college to train the clergy, but it was not a seminary per se; but it went astray very early.

The problem of the training of the clergy is a very serious one, if Andrew were here he could share with you some of the ideas he has in that field, and his hope is that we can someday have a training center for prospective ministers. But at present the crisis of American Protestantism is due to the failure of the seminary, and there is no getting around that fact.

[Audience Speaker] Thank you! Our next question please. Joseph?

[Jospeh] I just wanted to make a comment about education and knowledge. And I believe, Rousas in your book Revolt Against Maturity you make an important point about how you can have knowledge as a thing in and of itself, and I believe Rousas used the term Gnosis, or you can have knowledge in terms of a relationship, and the Greek term there is Epignosis. And I think that is an important principle in education, I think in primary education we have delegated the transmission of knowledge to a secular school system, and as a result what our children are getting are the values of the state, the Liberal state, and they are not getting the values of the family. And so knowledge is being translated, but the issue is: in relationship to what? And I see the problem as being that our children in our secular schools are getting knowledge in relationship to the social engineering program of the state; and in terms of pure Christian education, knowledge is transmitted in terms of relationship first of all to Almighty God, the law Revelation of God, and then after that the values of the family.

When you look at theological education, the principle is also similar; we are dealing with theological knowledge being transmitted, but in relationship to what? And our seminaries first of all must be under the Lordship of Christ, they must be in proper relationship to Biblical Revelation, and they also need to be in proper relationship to the ministry, the pastoral ministry, of the church. When you abstract knowledge from those relationships you get in a great deal of trouble. I think this is true in primary statist education, I think it is also true in theological seminary education as well.

[Audience Speaker] The next question please? Way in the back, sir.

[Audience Member] This is primarily for Dr. Rushdoony, asking for the benefit of his years on it, if you could comment on the relative importance of the influence of the school or the thing we think as educating, versus the educating that goes on …?... that we don’t think of as school but probably develop into real education versus all the rest.

[Audience Speaker] I’m going to repeat that, if I do not do it justice you can recapitulate it, and I will repeat it again. You are wanting to know, or for Dr. Rushdoony to contrast the difference between formal education and the influences of culture and what message that sends to our children, correct?

[Audience Member] To comment on the relative importance of it.

[Audience Speaker] The relative… okay, then the dynamic between the two.

[Rushdoony] Could you restate it…?

[Audience Speaker] I will, I will. (laughter) He wants to know the relative importance of the dynamic between formal education, and the influence of culture, and how that educates or sends a message to our youth, and the dynamic between the two.

[Rushdoony] Well, first of all we should define culture. Henry Van Til did that some years ago when he simply said that “culture is religion externalized.” Well, the culture of our time is a hedonistic humanism, governed by the pleasure principle. So it has a very bad effect on the community at large, because it gears people to thinking in terms of what they should have, making their demands on God and man alike, talking about rights; never about duties. And that seriously warps a culture, right from the beginning, and it warps all those who are in it. And this is why Christian schools and homeschools are a necessity, because they pull the child out of that culture, and say: “Here is another one, a Christian one, and you are going to be governed by this Christian culture.” And basic to the Christian culture is not thinking about ones rights, but about ones duties. And there is a world of difference between the two.

Earlier we had a question about sacrifice. Now the Bible has a great deal to say about sacrifice, and we are missing a great deal in the Bible if we just read about it and say: “Well, that’s over and finished with, it doesn’t apply to us.” But there is a great deal there that does apply to us. For example, clean meat alone, clean animals, could be sacrificed. But not all clean animals could be sacrificed; fish are clean, certain types of fish, and venison are clean, but neither could be used in a sacrifice because you didn’t spend a few years, or a year or two, raising them as you would a calf or a lamb or a kid. In other words, sacrifice was something that cost you something, otherwise you could not bring it to God. A costless sacrifice was not a sacrifice.

Well, in our culture the demand is on all levels that everything be costless. They want gifts from God without a cost, they want gifts from society and the state and the church without a cost. So the whole outlook has been warped.

Now, if we rear children to expect certain things, and to fail to realize that sacrifice is basic to life under God, then we have missed the boat with them, and we are going to be very unhappy about the results. Does that help?

[Audience Speaker] We have time for just a few more. Yes sir?

[Audience Member] The book When Fathers Ruled, is it still in print, and if so, from whom?

[Audience Speaker] The book When Fathers Ruled, is it still in print, and if so from whom.

[Rushdoony] I don’t know, but if you go to any bookstore that will order books, have them check on their computer file for Ozment, I think his first name is Stephen, but the last name is Ozment. When Fathers Ruled. It came out about 10 years ago, and it is possible it is in print still, or is out now in paperback; but it is well worth checking.

[Harry] If it is not in print, go to your local library and ask them to acquire it via interlibrary loan, I found books that I never thought I could get my hands on, for 50 cents they check them out to me for four weeks, and if they are really valuable I just photocopy them and put them in my file for personal reference, but usually you can find even very old books that way.

[Audience Member] …?... known for a long time that the public schools are corrupt and we need to get our children out of them, I have often had a Christian agree with that and then say: “But my public school is different.” What do you do when they say that?

[Audience Speaker] The question is, what do you- well, we could use that, most pastors will ask that about a number of issues regarding theological truth, but the issue that Dan is bringing up is when you are speaking to other Christians about the corruption of public schools, about their inadequacies and so on, and their antichrist agenda; and you have a Christian who will agree with you about that, but then makes a differentiation about their local public school. What do you do?

[Harry] Depending on what I know about the person, if they have a willingness to read, there are a number of books I might give them- I generally- that kinds of statement signals to me generally that the person doesn’t know what they are talking about. I live in an area of Ohio that is a rural area, and we have school not far from us called Union Elementary School, a very picturesque place. I have held some work shops at our church on how to teach phonics; I mean, my interest was teaching parents how to teach reading, not teaching reading to the children, to sort of reduplicate what we were doing. Well, I had a school teacher from that school come to our church at these meetings that I was holding, and so I convinced her and showed her how to use the Alpha Phonics books by Sam Blumenfeld; and she was telling me, I mean, she has got to go in there- and all of a sudden she tells me: “Oh, if I get caught I’m going to lose my job.” But she said: “I don’t care, I love these children too much, I’m just not going to do this to them.”

So they don’t know what they are talking about. If it is a Christian I general approach it this way: 1st John 2 says that if a man loves God but does not keep His commandments, says he loves God but does not keep the commandments, he is a liar and the truth is not in him; and then I go back to the summary of the law in the first great commandment, and I approach it from that way in regards to: “You are not teaching your child to love God with all of their mind,” and depending on the person and the context I used to attack that much more passively, but I attack it much more aggressively and call them to repent and get their children out of that institution. But it just depends on the person I am dealing with, and if it is not an issue of law, if it is not an issue of repentance and the gospel, well then it is a matter of Christian liberty and they can do what they want, and I will do what I want, but if it is an issue of law, then these are lines that Christ Himself has clearly drawn, and the law of God clearly draws, and we have got to draw those same lines.

[Audience Speaker] We have time for one more question… If you could stand please?

[Audience Member] I would like to direct this to Dr. Rushdoony. Do you believe that today as Christian parents we have a responsibility to basically shield our children from the animated type of movies that are portrayed today that have mysticism and cultism in them that really teaches, training at a very young age, that these things could possibly be a reality?

[Audience Speaker] I will repeat it, and if it is not satisfactory we will do it again. The question is to Dr. Rushdoony, specifically: we as parents, are we, or do we have a duty to shield our children from specific kinds of animated cartoon movies, etc, that would have a cultic or mystical content.

[Audience] (low talking)

[Audience Speaker] Okay, the question is, do we have a duty to shield our children from specific kinds of animated cartoonish movies, presentations, what have you, that may have a cultic or mystical content and so on, and John suggested something about something that you have about Disney?

[John] The homosexuals in the Disney organization, the article that you sent me.

[Rushdoony] Oh yes. Well, what John was referring to is the fact that a couple humanistic magazines of late have called attention to the presence at the top in every major studio in Hollywood including Disney, of homosexuals. They control them lock, stock, and barrel. Not only that, but 40% of those who work at Disney are homosexual. I have not seen, in fact I have not heard of the new animated film by Disney, Pocahontas, but one of my trustees told me that it is nature worship and a great deal more of that sort of thing. Well, I think it is very simple, if you have a good family life, your children are not going to miss those things, they will be happier with what there is at home.

Our second daughter, Joanna, does not have television in the home, and her children are especially outstanding. Daniel finished the 8th grade at twelve, and tested on first year college level in terms of the old, more classical 1970-71 Stanford achievement test. Now that was because he didn’t have television, and it doesn’t interest him now at all, if he is where there is a T.V. set he is bored, he will pick up a book and read while others are watching. We have a far better way of life to present to our children, and why not?

One of the things, let me say parenthetically, that a number of people have been doing the last 3-4 years at my suggestion, is to locate and buy books by G.A. Henty; who wrote a number of remarkable books for boys and adults on various periods in history, and he had a team of researchers to make sure that the historical facts were straight. We have here a couple who have reprinted one of these books: For the Temple about Josephus and the destruction of the temple in the 1st century, and if you want to contact them afterwards… would you raise your hand, Doug Waverly? Yes. They can tell you how to get this copy, and you will find it intensely absorbing reading. I felt that Henty not only did a remarkable job in faithfully portraying the entire history of that time, but it was one that furthered an insight into what Josephus himself had written about it.

Now there are all kinds of resources out there, if you explore them. And some of the children in our group have no problem with entertainment because they are aware of things like this, they use them. A number of them have become collectors of this or that authors works; some of the older writers who wrote excellent things from a better perspective than any book today has. The resources are there, we need to be aware of them and to use them.

[Audience Speaker] I would like to bring up Pastor (Pew?) to make some announcements and bring a conclusion to this evening, I want to thank Dr. Rushdoony and Reverend (Coffland?) for their lectures this evening, and your participation. I do want to go over tomorrows agenda very briefly, 8:30 a.m. there will be time for registration, then at 9:00 Joseph (Mcolliff?) will bring a presentation concerning education and its effect on business and economics, there will then be a short coffee break followed by Dr. Rushdoony bringing his second address to our conference, then questions and answers to both Dr. Rushdoony and Joseph (Mcolliff?). We will then have a short lunch break, reconvene at 1:30 p.m., Reverend (Pew?) will be bringing his address entitled Truth, Foundation of all Education; then Dr. Rushdoony in his third address at 2:30 p.m., and then concluding at 3:30 with questions and answers, and concluding remarks. Mr. (Pew?).

[Reverend Pew] Just two or three things that I want to bring to your attention, tomorrow for the lunch period there will be maps in the foyer, directing you to various restaurants within 5-10 minutes of this church; and there are a lot of them, you can take your pick, a variety of menus, a variety of cost. So those will be available tomorrow. There are book tables, one over in this room that says grade one and two, (Perry Coffin?) has set up a book table with a lot of books, Jeff Ziegler has a lot of his material over here in the class room, I think it says- second and third grade. So I encourage you to take a look at the books and the materials that are in those rooms. I have been asked about tapes for the conference, all of the messages as well as the Question and Answer sessions are being taped. They will be available, not immediately after the conference, but very shortly after it, the cost on those will be $4 per tape, or $20 for the entire set, which is a deal.

They will be in a- what do you call it Frank? Vinyl albums that you can have as well. If you are only here tonight and you want the tapes, I encourage you to come over and talk to Frank afterwards. Tomorrow there will be forms that you can fill out, that you can just leave on the table in the hall as you leave, if you would like the tapes.

Also, I understand that there was some parking problem tonight- that is a nice problem to have- tomorrow morning if you come and there is not space back here, just pull in on the grass out front, and form a line of cars down the front. Is there anyone besides our friends from Florida here who is staying at the Hampton or the Radisson Inn up at great Northern? If there is anyone going in that direction, they need a ride back to the Radisson Inn. Keith Miller, your… okay, right back over here. He will be happy to pick you up and take you there tonight. Alright. I think that is all the announcements, Jeff, anything else you can think of?

[Jeff] Just one, there were a number of inquires about a sign up sheet for interest in the Association of Free Reformed Churches, and specifically a mailing list that will be distributed to other pastors so you know who is in your neighborhood, who you can network with, etc. We will have a signup sheet in the back, it will be marked tomorrow by a proclamation that was sent to President Clinton, so that’s how you know what signup sheet it is. So they will be there tomorrow. Alright, let’s stand tomorrow and be dismissed, the first session begins at 9 o’clock tomorrow morning, if you have not registered, plan to be here at 8:30 so we can get the registration out of the way. Let’s close together in prayer.

Our Father and our God we acknowledge before you tonight that you are the God of truth, that there is no truth apart from a full acknowledgement of your Lordship over all of creation, and as we educate ourselves and as we educate our children, it is my prayer that we begin as you commanded us to begin, with that statement that the Lord, the Lord our God is one; and that that statement that was so crucial to the covenant people would be critical in our lives as well, that it would undergird all of our thinking. In Jesus name we pray, amen.