From the Easy Chair

Gene and Robin Newman

Professor: Dr. R.J. Rushdoony

Subject: Conversations, Panels and Sermons

Lesson: 202-214

Genre: Speech

Track:

Dictation Name: RR161T36

Year: 1980s and 1990s

Dr. R. J. Rushdoony, RR161T36, Gene and Robin Newman, from the Easy Chair, excellent colloquies on various subjects.

[ Rushdoony ] This is R. J. Rushdoony, Easy Chair number 129, September the first, 1986.

One of the pleasures of these Easy Chairs is that occasionally I have one of you here and a chance to have a session with you. And tonight we have two of our listeners from Michigan, Gene and Robin Newman.

Gene, Robin, we are very happy to have you with us this evening.

First of all, before we go into our discussion, why don’t you introduce yourselves and each of you tell a little bit about your background, your experience as a Christian, your introduction to the faith and so on? Gene, why don’t you start?

[ G Newman ] Well, that is an interesting question and one that—because of my Jewish background—I have had to give at various churches. It seems that when they discover that I am Jewish I am a bit of a novelty or a curiosity and they are always very interested in how I came to the faith. But I will be mercifully brief, because I know my wife has a story to tell as well.

I was born in Israel and I came over when I was just about three years old. And we settled in the Detroit area and I grew up in a home that was culturally Jewish, but a home where Jewish values, per se, were not specifically taught. But the culture of being Jewish was very much in evidence. I went to Hebrew school and we primarily grew up in a conservative home, although I was exposed to the three major Jewish demoniations—reformed, conservative and orthodox. And eventually I went to college and I got married in 1971 and it was very interesting for me to grow up in a Jewish environment, because the culture that I lived in was not the main culture and my father is from the United States. My mother was a refugee from Poland and grew up in Israel. So there was this real cultural conflict. And my mother was very much concerned about the status of Jewish people and the environment and so forth. My father was not. She tended to be informed by her Jewish values and my father was not. And we grew up in an area that was both Christian and seculal and Jewish and in a part of Michigan and a part of the Detroit area that wasn’t predominantly Jewish. It was mixed. And as a result, I didn’t grew up in a predominantly Jewish culture. I grew up in a mixed culture. And so when it came to dating Gentile girls, {?} as we affectionately called them, I was open to that idea. And I guess my mother was reluctantly open to it as well. Robin is shaking her head. Well, I was... I thought I was open to it.

At any rate, I... I... I... I married my high school sweetheart and, as I said, we did get married in 1971 and we eventually moved to Toronto a couple of years later and lived there for 11 years and then moved back. We were in business for ourselves and then I eventually made a career change and worked of a chemical company and later that chemical company helped to transfer me back to the United States where we moved to Milwaukee and then we moved again to the Detroit area.

It was during that time in Canada where we had an opportunity to develop as a family away from my parents, away from the environment that we were most familiar with, because Robin and I, being high school sweethearts, we both grew up in a similar... in similar areas. In fact, when we did, we were only 10 blocks apart. And so when we moved away it was not only a different country, it was a really different culture. And Robin came from an Armenian and Catholic background. I came from a Jewish background, but we were nominally our religious backgrounds. We were... we... our values were not necessarily informed by those backgrounds in a very distinctive way. So, as a result of some temporary physical illness we got into the ... a health food regime called Zen Macrobiotics. And being very enthusiastic about it, adopted its cosmology. We began to live communally. We actually were a major macrobiotic supplier in eastern Canada. We started and ran an ashram. We taught eastern cosmology.

And it was as a result of that that I started to see the value in religious values, because it was more than a diet. It was a way of life. And yoga and meditation and all of that was a part of it. And it was one of my suppliers in Texas that was a Christian. And he was very enthusiastic about my Jewishness.

Well, I wasn’t Jewish at that time in my own mind. I was, if anything, a Zen Buddhist Shinto ashram operator. I was not Jewish. However, he started... he started quoting Scripture. We used to buy a lot of our natural foods from him and every time I would place my order he had a message at the receptionist that when our company placed its order he was going to get on the line. He was the president of the company. It was one of the largest in the country. And I imagine it still is today. And he would always come on the line and just share a little bit of his Christian experience and what joy he felt at me being Jewish. And I didn’t understand it. And he started quoting Scripture from the Old Testament. And that really bothered me, because even though I could care less about that Bible, I certainly didn’t believe in it. I felt very possessive about the fact that here was this Christian, this Gentile knowing more about the Bible and it was my book. All of the sudden it became my book. And this was... this bothered me for a number of years, as a matte of fact, but it opened my eyes, because I couldn’t understand why a Christian. And from the Jewish perspective they don’t make the distinctions between Catholicism and Protestantism and the Armenian church and the Greek orthodox and so forth. I was always taught that Christians were Christians and whether it was ... or Catholics or... or... or whatever. And yet I knew Frank was not Catholic, but he had this knowledge of the Bible that I didn’t feel was legitimate. He didn't write the Bible. He wasn’t Jewish. It was our book. And yet I didn’t know anything about it. And that was a.... a seed that was being planted in my own mind. And that was to come back later on, because the one thing that Frank was very careful to do was that he never forced his Christian religion, quote, down my throat. I was very negative towards Christians and Gentiles or I... Christians in general, because of the tradition of persecution and separation that was ostensibly forced on the Jews throughout the European experience and so forth. A lot of it was true, I am sure and a lot of it was just, also, self imposed. But I respected that.

And eventually what happened is that I met some business people that were Christians. And they did the same thing. They were very proud of their Christian belief and faith and they seemed to have answers which I didn't have. And we were... we had started a family. And, in fact, our family was multiplying every two years we were having children. And we have five today with one on the way. And they are all two years apart. So we were somewhat systematic in this.

And it was becoming quite evident that my Zen outlook and ... and the practicality demanded by my business was not going to be compatible. It was also evident that living in an ashram and communistically was not working either, because there... there was some tension and there was separation being created in my own family. And that had to do with part of the people that I was living with.

But more importantly than that, the answers were not coming. I ... I have always been the kind of person that needs to have a cohesive understanding of the way things operate. I can’t have a lot of loose ends. And I... and I have always been the kind of individual that has to dig and dig and dig to get to the root of something. When I was in university I was a committed Marxist, not just a superficial one. And when that didn’t work and I met some of the... eventually I met the leaders and found out how morally bankrupt and even politically bankrupt. And when I... I rejected and we got into Zen Macrobiotics, we just didn't eat brown rice and meso soup and the diet. We started a company. We started teaching it. We started proselytizing. We started promoting. We went to Boston and studied. We got into it from a very, very deeply. And when you teach something you force yourself to learn it. And so this accelerated the process and I have always ... I have always felt that as long as I am committed to getting to the root of something, if it is the truth, I will find out. And if it is not the truth I will find that out, too. And that is basically where I was in my introduction to the Christian faith.

I was not interested in Jesus Christ, per se. And when I give my testimony sometimes I say to the audience, that becoming a Christian was definitely not my idea. That was the last thing I was looking for if someone were to give me a questionnaire and say, “What would you like to be next year?” Jewish, Christian, Muslim, Zen, secular? I would not have checked the box Christian. I had no interest, myself, but I have a burning desire to find answers. And a ... a very strong need to understand why things are the way they are. And a lot of this had to do with the fact that I had children and I had to educate them. I had the marriage at that time with... and we are going back a number of years now that I didn’t feel was very solid. I had a business that seemed to be slipping through my fingers because of government internvention and the value of the declining dollar and high import taxes and a market conditions I wasn’t prepared for because I was a music major, not a business major and here I was running a business that was doing a very high volume, employing 14 people, distributing natural foods to 500 different accounts in most of the provinces of Canada. It was a small business, but very complex.

And so there was ... there were so many things that we were involved in, I needed to have answers and I wasn’t getting answers. And humanly speaking my motivation in becoming a Christian was finding the truth. I wanted to find the truth. I wanted to find out if the claim that Christ was the answer, that the Bible was the source of truth and the standard, standards for life. I wanted to know whether that was, in fact, the truth. And the thing that intrigued me the most from that standpoint was something that a pastor, a Pentecostal pastor that I have a great deal of respect for the Jews and he respected my Jewish heritage more than I did said to me. He said, “I cannot conjure up Jesus Christ. I cannot convince you that Jesus Christ is the truth. I cannot convince you that the Bible is true, but God can. And if it is God’s will that your eyes will be opened and your heart will be softened, it will be unmistakable to you.”

And that was really unique, because implicit in ... in my socialistic training and in my Zen training and so forth was a works type of... of religion where we are going not convert through our own efforts and our own abilities. This was so ... so much the opposite and it was opposite from my... from what I was told as a ... a person growing up in a Jewish home, that, in fact, my impression of Christians was that the caricature of a TV evangelist, where they are brow beating you to death and you have to make that decision right now or it is over with and it was ... it was a sham. That was.... I had a very low opinion of that. And here was this pastor saying exactly the opposite and what he was basically saying I was to find out later was the sovereignty of God’s grace.

And that was very, very powerful, that I melted. I felt helpless under that. And it wasn’t long ager that that I accepted Christ. And because it wasn’t something that I personally was looking for myself, I didn’t feel that ... I... I didn’t have a sense of obligation that I was to prove Christianity was right. If it was correct it was ... if it was the truth it was going to manifest itself and I will let my wife explain what happened that memorable day. It did change my life and my life has not been the same and it has been a great joy and I feel that that has been a turning point and I know that the providential hand of God has been on our family.

I... I know that God providence has always been on it, but I had not recognized it until after I became a Christian and we have been enormously blessed by that. And I feel that we have had... we have been much more effective as a result of... of believing that the Bible is the Word of God, that it is... that it is infallible and that when we look for guidance as to what to do, I have a standard right now. That is such a sense of peace. It really is. It is... I can’t describe it to you. It is a very personal thing for me, because I was... I was... I was so restless inside. And all... I have a great sense of compassion and... and pity, especially when I see people that I can identify with who are really lost. I know what it is like to really be lost. And... and not everyone is lost. Very few people are going anywhere. So they don’t even know they are lost. But there re people who are desperately seeking to accomplish something in their lives. And they feel it greater. They want to do something and they feel that they are constantly running into road blocks and obstacles and they are constantly being defeated. And in a sense, that is where I was, not totally, but I did feel that and that was the answer, the net result. And one of the great just personal truths and personal experiences is that I no longer see that. That is no longer reality for me. And I don’t like to wear it on my sleeve, but nevertheless, the truth of Christ’s life and his message, the truth of the Bible is something that is so deeply ingrained in me that it is impossible to deny or to compromise what I have lived through and what I am continuing to live through.

So it has been a very exciting and challenging time and this was almost six... almost six years ago.

[ Rushdoony ] Robin? Let’s hear from you now.

[ R Newman ] I was raised as a Catholic. I met Gene in high school.

[ Rushdoony ] Your parents were...

[ R Newman ] My father is Armenian {?} is his last name and my mother is Polish. We did not have a particularly strong religious faith in our home because both of my parents are deaf and, as a result, most of the influence in our home was the cultural influence from the deaf community.

[ Rushdoony ] Oh.

[ R Newman ] So it ... it was not probably as strong a Catholic a Christian as it could have been had they both been hearing in that regard. But, as it was, my mother’s side of the family, quote, unquote, kind of... won... won out and I was raised more on the Catholic faith as opposed to the Orthodox Christian or Orthodox Armenian faith.

And when I met Gene in high school I have remember him making a comment to me one time about being Catholic. He thought it was so terrible, because they had a ... a concept of sin and guilt. And I... I don’t know if you remember that, but he couldn’t relate to it at all because of the idea that the Church would lay so much guilt on a person because of sin and the whole idea of sin was just totally repugnant to him. And now it is quite fun because he is the one that really harps on it... on the concept of sin.

[ Rushdoony ] His or yours?

[ R Newman ] That is a good question. Anyway we dated for four years and we both dated other people on and off, but I don’t know, I felt a real sense of kind of destiny when I... when I met Gene that somehow we belonged together. And I think that has proved correct. When it came time for us to get married we announced it to his family with fear and trepidation. In Michigan there is a place called Grant Field Village and they have a very, very lovely chapel, long rolling green hills. It is non denominational and many, many people get married there. And we thought that would be the perfect place. We wouldn’t offend anybody. We wouldn’t offend my family. We wouldn’t offend his family. And we thought that would be a very nice place to get married, a non denominational chapel.

So we announced to his parents that we wanted to get married and his mother went through the roof. A chapel? What is a chapel? It is a church, for Pete’s sake. And she just went bananas. And the end of the discussion was, Robin, would you consider converting? And I had to think about it. Not too difficult a decision. In the Jewish faith Jewishness stems from the mother, the reason being that you always know who the mother is, but you can never be sure who the father is. And in order for the grandchildren to be Jewish, she wanted her grandchildren to be Jewish, the mother must be Jewish. Therefore, would I consider converting?

So we discussed it and the basic tenets of Judaism as they were presented to me at the tie was not anything that I did not already believe or could not accept. And so we went through a very, very brief conversion study with a conservative rabbi at the time.

[ G Newman ] Reformed.

[ R Newman ] Was he reformed? Ok, rabbi Simon {?}. He was reformed. And eight weeks later we were married and we had a Jewish wedding. It was very nice. We had all the Armenians on one side and the Jews on the other side and they may be...

[ Rushdoony ] How about the Poles?

[ multiple voices ]

[ R Newman ] They were... they were.... they were there, too. And the that was the deaf people. It was a nice mixture of people and...

[ G Newman ] You should have been there.

[ R Newman ] Oh, it was great fun. And shortly after we were married, as Gene said, we got into the natural foods path and that sort of thing. Well, how long has it been? I guess, I guess we must have been married about seven, eight years at that point and we entered another business. And there were Jewish business associates that we had there at the time that had hosted a Bible study. Previous to that point, too, I had gone to a program, OA, overeaters anonymous. Basically the same program as alcoholics anonymous, because whenever I had a problem of any kind I would run to the refrigerator. I would eat. I did not deal with problems very effectively.

[ Rushdoony ] You obviously had no problems now.

[ R Newman ] You are sweet.

[ Rushdoony ] I still have that basic tendency. But I believe the Lord brought me to that program because in that program they have ewhat is called a... it is a 12 step program. The first step is to recognize that you are totally powerless over ... you have no control, literally, over anything in your life and that you must surrender to, quote, a higher power. And you progress. You come to realize that that higher power really is the Lord God almighty. And I came to a point where I literally was broken and made a commitment to the Lord—as I understood him at that point in my life.

My attitude changed. My thinking changed. I was having devotions, although always in this... the context of this OA program. I even changed my name at that point. My given name is Doris and I had felt along the line that people had a spiritual name coming from the Zen background, right? And believed that Robin was a more appropriate name for me. And so after I went through this sort of surrender experience where I changed my name to Robin, made the announcemtn to Gene. He was totally looking at me like I was totally cracked, didn’t know what had happened at all. And it wasn’t until about two, three years later that... actually we had joined the Amway business. A lot of people don’t like to hear that, but that was our experience. And there were... there are a number of fairly committed Christians in that business. And as part of their conventions they would offer an optional worship service where they gave an altar call. And we had been going for about six months. And after about six months I began to feel a real tugging in my heart to accept Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior of my life. And when I converted to Gene and the Jewish faith you have to relegate Christ to the position of a prophet or a ... what is the word I want? A political activist, something other than the Lord God almighty. You have to... they regognize that Christ existed, that there was someone named Christ and he was obviously very influential and very effective at the time, but he was not the Son of God. And so I had to in my mind, for the sake of our marriage and harmony kind of give up my Catholic teachings that Christ was the Son of God and lower him to a position of prophet in my own mind.

Well, as I heard these preachings from the conventions that we went to, I began to feel that I could no longer keep him in that position. And I fought it for six months, literally fought it. I had a twisting in my heart because I was trying now to deny that Christ was Lord, because my husband was Jewish. How could I turn around now and make this kind of profession of being a real Christian when my husband was Jewish? What was going to happen to my marriage? Everything is so... I... finally the day came, another six months later, so this was a whole year where I couldn’t any more and I finally came forward and accepted the Lord. And so that was six years ago.

Gene’s conversion came about three months later, which I was totally, totally shocked for even to this day when I think about it. I am just... I am extremely pleased and still very, very blessed.

[ Rushdoony ] Well, that is quite a remarkable story. And I think there is much more that we need to go into, because it is what has happened since then that is, I think, the best part of the story. Robin, will you tell us more? This is a marvelous story.

[ R Newman ] We had some interesting experiences within the Amway business because there were so many permanent Christians who were leaders and teachers. We would often be taught about the women’s role, quote, unquote, within a business and within a marriage and it was always from a Christian perspective. One was the idea... one was the idea, obviously, that a wife should be subject to her husband’s authority. Well, what was happening at this time was they had hosted... one of the couples there had hosted a program called restore America where they introduced us to America’s Christian history. This was really kind of our first introduction to understanding America, its inception through its biblical roots, founding fathers. And we went to that program. Gene and I went to that program. And we were introduced to the idea of home schooling and the importance of teaching your own children at home, making sure that you raise them well. Also, again, a lot of teaching about a woman’s place, proper place in a Christian home. And you were there, actually.

[ Rushdoony ] Oh, was this the Columbus {?} meeting?

[ R Newman ] Yes.

[ Rushdoony ] Oh, yes.

[ R Newman ] It was the first time that we...

[ Rushdoony ] {?} and John Saunders from our group...

[ R Newman ] Yeah, that is right.

[ Rushdoony ] ... was also there.

[ R Newman ] John Saunders was there. It was the first time that we met him. It was actually the last time that we met him. We have not seen him since, although we hear him often on the tapes. But that was our first introduction to you. Gene was quite taken by you, absolutely just overwhelmed with what he heard you say. I was totally clouded with what you had to say. I must admit it went right over my head. It was just completely foreign to anything I had ever heard. And when we left that program Gene got on the Chalcedon mailing list, as a result of that, and as a result began reading a lot of your books and different things.

Well, I went through personally a very frustrating period for about a year and a half because Gene was reading all of your works, coming up from his inception as a Christian with a totally reformed perspective. And we would be going to all these little churches, you know. I hear the pastor say one thing. I thought it was wonderful. He would come out and say, “He was wrong here, there and he was wrong here, he was wrong here.” And I would look at him like, “Who are you?

You know, I mean you have only been a Christian for six months. How do you know? And I thought... I thought... he was the only Christian thinking the way he was thinking, the only one that I knew of. I was not reading Chalcedon Reports I was not listening to tapes. I was not doing any of those things. I thought he was totally bananas and off the wall. Our marriage was going down hill. And here we have become Christians. Things are supposed to get better, right? Things were getting worse all over the place.

But as I listened to him explain more and more and more and I began reading a little bit myself, I began to understand the point of view of the perspective, the reformed perspective that he was coming from. And then I began to see a lot of these errors and ... and things that I heard from the pulpit, a lot of liberal preaching. And so it was... but it was about a two year haul before we were really kind of both going in... in the same direction and kind of the same thinking in our faith.

The challenge we have had recently is, again, I mean, in Michigan there are really no reformed churches or anything. Most of the churches there are very, very liberal. It is difficult to find a church that will use even the King James Bible. And we have met a number of friends through conferences, scattered throughout the metropolitan area that have been reading Chalcedon Report and reformed works and we were kind of hoping to get a church going. So we are kind of working on that right now.

[ Rushdoony ] Well, Robin, you are doing a remarkable work, home schooling your children. Do you have a dress code for them?

[ R Newman ] Yes.

[ Rushdoony ] So even in the home they have to dress for school.

[ R Newman ] Absolutely.

[ Rushdoony ] Why don’t you tell us a little bit about your work there?

[ R Newman ] Well, last year I home schooled four. Michael is 13. He was grade seven... well, in Canada they say grade... here it would be seventh grade. Sarah was in fourth grade. Samuel was in third grade. Jessie was in first grade. And we had started when we left Canada and went to Milwaukee we enrolled the children in Christian Liberty Academy of Brookfield, Wisconsin, which was a reformed church and... and school and very, very fine. They were there for six months when Gene had a different position and we were being moved to Michigan. And they offered a home school curriculum, covenant home curriculum. It was basically an extension of what they were already doing in school.

So we though that was our best option and we decided to go with it at that point. And I also had four year old Elizabeth at the time that I did not really do any real teaching with her. She was just kind of there. We had desks for everybody. We have a large enough home with a finished basement that we actually set up a school room downstairs. It is all finished. And we had the charts on the wall and desks and everybody had their desk and we have boards that we work off of and had all our materials, everything that we needed. The first half year we kind of jumped in, didn't know what we were doing. We were lucky we even kind of got through although Dale {?} the pastor there was very, very encouraging.

The second year we were actually... the first full year we had we completed was last year. And by the end of the year a real pattern started to establish, a routine started to come. I could see where a lot of rote drills were being very effective with the children. They were memorizing and learning things very well, discipline and habits were starting to kind of develop. I have been able to kind go through more than half of my curriculum for this year already and it has been a real... I shouldn’t say a real brief, but a relatively simple job compared to when I first started, just sitting down and kind of mapping out schedules and figuring out what we are going to do.

The children have responded well. Obviously it is a bit of an unorthodox thing to do in a neighborhood that we are in. We supposedly live in a very nice suburban neighborhood, upper middle class. There are a lot of private day schools in the area that a lot of the children go to. The public schools supposedly are supposed to be one of the finest around. One of them just got a national award of some kind from the government. They travelled the country. They send these so-called experts out and they travel the country and they pick out, quote, exemplary schools and there is a couple of schools in our district that were given an award. But they are not without their problems. And drugs, obviously, being one of them. Peer pressure. We have two children that are kind of good foils for us in... in one sense. They live right across the street. One is a boy Michael’s age. The other is a girl Sarah’s age. And they come over. We see the way they dress, the way they act, they way they speak. All the things that they are into are completely peer oriented. You can see they get all their influence from their peers. Their parents literally almost have no effect on them at all. The boy Eric I can ... I am afraid what will happen that I feel like the handwriting is on the wall. If he is allowed to continue in the path that he is going in, they will have a drug problem on their hands.

I mean, I can hear their daughter coming over one day and saying, “Oh, they found Eric with drugs and blah, blah, blah.” And I won’t be the least bit surprised.

Our children have adjusted to home schooling very well. The curriculum that we work with we basically work a quarter at a time and then I send in their reports and tests and files and things like this into Milwaukee and they look everything over and send it back with a comment sheet. So we are getting lots of feedback and a lot of good input in that regard. They get along well. They help each other in school. We start at nine in the morning. We finish at 3:30 in the afternoon which is pretty good long day. I am basically a working mother in that sense in that I have my time taken up all day, but I am also free to run in and throw a load of laundry because I am home. I can get, you know, a couple of loads of laundry done while I am home. If I have to at lunch time I am there to make phone calls. If repairmen have to come to the house I am home, which we have had in the past.

In fact, we had an interesting experience last year. We had to have a painter come to do some repair work. He turned out to be a real terrific Christian fellow, was just enthralled with the fact that we were home schooling. He considered it himself. So it has been just a very, very good in that regard.

[ Rushdoony ] Home schooling right now is one of the fasted growing causes in this country. No one knows how many people are home schooling. I know that about six years ago when the state superintendent of public instruction decided to move against the home schools, shortly after being elected, he backed off very quickly when he realized how many of the voters out there were home schooling parents. At that time it was estimated that her were 105,000 home schools, which means 210,000 voters and perhaps 400,000 or better children. Well, that is just in California. That is why the state superintendent of public instruction changed his mind in a hurry and blamed one of his superintendents for having started the attempt to suppress home schools.

[ R Newman ] We have not had any particular problem ourselves personally. We are part of a...

[ G Newman ] We...

[ R Newman ] We were in the newspaper. Yeah, we were interviewed for the newspaper.

[ G Newman ] A front page article on... on our home school in... in the local county paper, which is Oakland County.

[ multiple voices ]

[ R Newman ] We are also members of CURE which is Christians United to Reclaim Education. It is a Michigan group.

[ Rushdoony ] Well, you have had a hand in starting that group, haven’t you?

[ G Newman ] Yes.

[ R Newman ] With other home schoolers there.

[ G Newman ] Yes, we are on the board of directors and we ... we are considered to be the Christian conscience of the home school movement in the state of Michigan. There are other...

[ R Newman ] Not necessarily the Christian opinion, but...

[ G Newman ] That is true. We don’t claim to be the only Christian...

[ R Newman ] There are others that would disagree with our stands.

[ Rushdoony ] Gene, you have also taken the tapes for the series that went into the making of the book Christianity and the State and had a study course on that. And you have taught a group.

[ G Newman ] That is right.

[ Rushdoony ] That series.

[ G Newman ] Yes. What we did was to have a meeting in our home every two weeks, well actually twice a month. And we printed the fliers out and we have had ... we have had a summer recess, but we have had a growing group of people coming over. The theology of the state was chosen because it is a church state related and it doesn't conflict with a lot of the ... at this stage a lot of the church teaching and we found it to be a very good way of introducing people to the perspective, the reformed perspective on something that as very practical, something that we were all having to deal with. And many of the people that came over were home school parents. And they wanted to understand what are the issues, really. I mean, they knew that they needed to take a position, but they weren’t sure why they needed to take a Christian position or what ever a Christian position was.

So those... we have had a growing interest in that. We are resuming that series in September and we have plans for continuing with that series directed towards different audiences and then promoting the reformed perspective. A lot of people that I am talking to if I don’t use the buzz words and the labels that tend to polarize and then talk about the issues, they are very... they are much more receptive. If I say this is a reformed perspective and they are not reformed, or they are something else, that tends to set up a block. But we just talk about the issues. There is a lot more interchange. There is a lot more responsiveness and sensitivity.

[ Rushdoony ] Well, actually on the church and state issue the reformed perspective has been especially through the medieval era and for some time subsequently, the Catholic position. And it has been thate position of some other communions as well. So it comes closer to being the Christian position, certainly that of the early church and of most churches since then.

Well, do you want to fill in some of the gaps in the story now? As...

[ G Newman ] Well, Robin has done such a good job. I don’t know if I could really improve on it, but we have taken, we have tried to continue being very active in our own community, not only did we feel it was important to being our home school support group throughout the state, it was very important to begin education. We have to reeducate people in our community and that was one of the reasons for starting this study group. We were also and we are involved politically and I have had the privilege of being involved in a fund raising event which was unique in Michigan history because we supported Mark {?} and Mark {?}, we are on the east side of the state and Mark’s district is on the west side of the state. And the idea... and the idea was to help Mark become reelected. He was running for a primary. And he was considered and he is considered one of the outstanding Christian spokesmen on Capitol Hill. And we felt it was important. Every time Mark votes he is not just voting for the people of the state of Michigan or his district. He is voting on Christian issues and representing Christians all over the country. And we felt that was very important.

Well, to just briefly touch upon this, because it is almost a miracle. What happened was that we had made a decision to do something for Mark. And one phone call led to another phone call and we decided that perhaps a fund raiser could be arranged. And there was a three person host committee or a four person host committee and I was one of the ... on that committee. And from the time we mailed out our invitations to the time of the actual dinner, fund raiser, was only two weeks and no one thought that it was even possible to put something together like this. Number one, none of us was experienced. Number two, this was highly unusual. Here we were in the 18ty congressional district raising funds for someone in the fourth congressional district, clear across the state and none of the people that came to the dinner could vote for Mark.

But what we were able to do was to raise nearly 14,000 dollars in contributions for Mark as well as another 6000 dollars that Mark took up as a result of coming in. We were able to get Pat Robertson to come in as one of the key note speakers. It was a very exciting thing to be involved in, because the people that were there were enthusiastic about the idea that they had to take a stand and support candidates who were willing to take a conservative and moral position with their funds and with their support and they saw all kinds of other people doing the same thing. This wasn’t just a political thing. This was a cause.

And it was very exciting for us who were organizing it. And Robin played a very prominent role, because I was out of town much of the time. And we are continuing to do that. The elections, of course, are coming. Unfortunately, Mark was defeated in... in the primary, but this, I don’t believe, has ... has really stopped the enthusiasm from the people that were involved in that and continue to be involved. So we are continuing to be very active. Robin mentioned that we were in the process of starting a reformed work. We are continuing to do that. We feel that it is very necessary to do that.

And other than that, I ... I don’t know... the best is yet to come as we like to... as we like to say.

[ R Newman ] Around December we will see.

[ G Newman ] Around... we are a little bit beside ourselves in... in some respects, because things have happened at... at such a pace. And very little of it has been our doing to speak of.

[ R Newman ] Our leaving Canada and... and finding the school in Milwaukee which gave us the curriculum, introduced us to home schooling. A lot of ...

[ G Newman ] Sure.

[ R Newman ] ... God’s hand in many, many things, arranging for ... financially we could never have done it. It was all picked up by the company.

[ G Newman ] Yeah, we moved twice.

[ R Newman ] And those different things.

[ G Newman ] And no one really wanted to move us. It was... you ... you know sometimes Christians have slogans that become clichés like I am putting my life into the Lord’s hands. And I am sure that is true for some people and I am sure it is not true for others. I really feel that that that has been true for us, because it has been unconscious. It is... it is... we made that decision and then we just kind of didn’t think about it and we just ... when we... when we prayed about coming to the United States we felt that this is what we had to do and the Lord opened up the financial resources, opened up the personal contacts. When we... when I lost... I lost my job, literally. Well, I resigned, but it is the same thing. After six months moving to Milwaukee. And it was and moving, you know, 42,000 pounds of furniture and five kids into a city that you didn’t know anything about. And then six months later here you are in a very expensive home and no job and no friends. What do you do?

And when I took my job, I told my boss that I would take the job provided that they would move me, sight unseen to Detroit. And he asked me why, he said... and... and I said, “Well, because if this doesn't work out like my last job, I want to be among friends.”

[ R Newman ] And he bought it.

[ G Newman ] And they ... I wasn’t trying to be flippant. I was ... that was honesty the... the case. He respected that and but what was unusual, he comes from a reasonably conservative Catholic background. And for one hour of employment, of my employment interview we talked about the critique of modern theology and the ... the attack of Liberalism on the Catholic Church. We didn’t talk about the job. We didn’t talk about what was required. We were getting to know each other as... as people. And I think that played a very large part. And I wasn’t self consciously, quote, Christian in trying to... to share a witness. I was just speaking honestly and... and very spontaneously about issues which I had an opinion on and in that sense I left it up to the Lord. And had he turned to be anti Christian or had he turned out to be a person that would hold that against us, then than that would not have been to our favor.

[ R Newman ] But we have always taken the approach of making a decision, between us and then the Lord would honor that decision. He would ... how it would come about we didn’t know. But something had to happen. We would make the decision that something is going to happen and then the Lord would honor that decision and it has been that... that has been pretty consistent all along. We don’t just kind of clear out and say, “Well, what do you want me to do next, Lord?”

[ G Newman ] Yes, no, no, we do... we do have plans. We... we... I believe the Bible is pretty specific about the necessity of making plans. But it was in the context that, you know, all of these plans are going to ...are only going to bear fruit if God will permit that. So... but you don’t dwell on that. I never... I never felt the need of dwelling upon that. It was just something that was always in the background and, perhaps, that was part of the almost in a different sense, the fatalism of ... of the Jewish experience.

[ Rushdoony ] Well, it is remarkable how much you do, Gene, considering the fact that you are involved in politics in Michigan. You are involved in the home school movement and the state organization. And you put 100,000 miles or so in the air traveling all over the country. As a salesman each year, 100,000 miles.

[ G Newman ] 140,000.

[ Rushdoony ] 140,000.

[ R Newman ] That is how we got here. It is called a free ticket.

[ G Newman ] Well, I have a day timer and if it doesn't go into the day timer it doesn't get done. There is really a lot of scheduling that has to be done, but, yes, it is ... it is... it is ... it is not something that we can sit back and take very much credit for. It is just something that we feel has to be done and it is an outgrowth of saying we have to make our faith real and relevant in every area of our life and we don’t... we don’t see anyone... anyone else doing it and we don't’ feel that we should wait for someone else to do it. We are going to do what we feel we have to do, what we have been called to do. And we pray that God will bring people into our lives that are of a like mind or will be supportive and having that as an assumption we have met people in the home school movement. We have met people in the financial community. We have just... I feel somewhat embarrassed to say how blessed we have been in our lives because we have taken that attitude, because it hasn’t been our intention to exploit our religious faith. We have just used it, I ... I believe, as ... as ... as a way of understanding our lives and as a way of understanding what we need to do for... for God and for our family, for our country. And I... I would have to say that ... and I think it is important that I say this. I became a Christian.... I am... a fairly new Christian. But my main theological exposure was through the reformed faith and specifically through the work of Chalcedon and yourself. And I think that has been very providential. It has caused a number of problems, but I think it has been remarkable in helping me to get a compass on so many of the conflicting ideas that pervade the Christian community and ... and... and so forth. And I believe that it has had a real important affect on our lives.

[ Rushdoony ] One quick question. Your mother was concerned when you first got married and then, of course, when Robin converted and you did. How is she adjusting to your lives now? After all, she was just with you the last couple of days.

[ G Newman ] Yes.

[ Rushdoony ] Last week.

[ G Newman ] Yes. She has been with us all week. And I would say that she is adjusting, she is adjusting remarkably well, but she doesn’t agree with our perspective. She doesn’t understand why we had to choose Christianity, because she says, “Well, Christianity came from Judaism, so why do you need Christianity?”

[ R Newman ] Well, her idea, too, also is she doesn’t understand why Gene would have actively sought something else, in her mind, without first seeking or studying Judaism. Like if that was his background, why didn’t he go to study that first without looking for something else?

[ Rushdoony ] Did she have the rabbi visit you?

[ G Newman ] Oh, yes.

[ R Newman ] Oh, yes.

[ G Newman ] I had...

[ R Newman ] He calls every Sunday. The rabbi calls.

[ G Newman ] As a matter of fact, I am study with an orthodox rabbi and... and that... that is... I am... I am finding that very interesting. And ....

[ R Newman ] That is very interesting.

[ G Newman ] But my mother has not accepted our situation, but she has acknowledged the fact that we are Christians and as a Jewish mother even if your child becomes a Christian but remains civilized and remains approachable, you really don’t have a cause for severing the relationship and I...

[ R Newman ] If our kids were monsters, I think it might be... it would get to be an excuse. But our kids are the opposite. We get nothing but praise about how well behaved our children are.

[ G Newman ] That is true. She doesn’t... she doesn’t understand how we can bring up such good kids when she sees so many other brats coming out of Jewish homes. And so she says, “I really don’t agree with what you are doing, but you must be doing something right.”

[ Rushdoony ] What does the rabbi say? We have just got a couple of minutes?

[ G Newman ] Well, the rabbi is a little perplexed, too.

[ R Newman ] His... I think he is trying to appease your mom more.

[ G Newman ] Yeah.

[ R Newman ] He is kind of a laiaison between then two, because she can’t... she finds it difficult to have a discussion with Gene without getting emotional over the whole thing. So...

[ multiple voices ]

[ G Newman ] So the rabbi...

[ R Newman ] And going through the rabbi is...

[ multiple voices ]

[ G Newman ] He is a mediating the... the...

[ R Newman ] ...trying to help her understand this perspective.

[ Rushdoony ] Maybe he will convert him.

[ G Newman ] Lord willing. We will... we will... we will be a part of that.

[ Rushdoony ] Well...

[ G Newman ] It has been interesting.

[ Rushdoony ] This has been marvelous, Gene, Robin. Thank you very, very much.

[ R Newman ] Thank you, Rush.

[ G Newman ] Thank you very much.

[ Rushdoony ] And it has been a delight to have you hear and we will look forward to seeing you again.

[ G Newman ] Thank you.

[ Rushdoony ] And thank you all for listening.

[ Voice ] Authorized by the Chalcedon Foundation. Archived by the Mount Olive Tape Library. Digitized by ChristRules.com.