From the Easy Chair

Work in Switzerland

Professor: Dr. R.J. Rushdoony

Subject: Conversations, Panels and Sermons

Lesson: 193-214

Genre: Speech

Track:

Dictation Name: RR161P27

Year: 1980s and 1990s

Dr. R. J. Rushdoony, RR161P27, Work in Switzerland, from the Easy Chair, excellent colloquies on various subjects.

[ Rushdoony ] This is R. J. Rushdoony, Easy Chair number 114, January 27, 1986.

It is our pleasure this evening to have with us Jean Mark Berteau from Switzerland. Jean Mark is one of our Chalcedon staff men and he represents us in Europe. Jean Mark, it is a pleasure to have you with us.

[ Berteau ] It is a great privilege to be here with you.

[ Rushdoony ] I think our audience would be very much interested in knowing something about your work in Switzerland primarily as you deal with the parents there.

[ Berteau ] Well, we have founded a Christian Parents Association in 1979. Faced with problems that you know here of sexual education, {?} education, school, legislation on the part of the state to diminish the responsibility of the families and a number of parents got together to see what could be done because we were very struck by the fact that the churches were doing nothing at all that, in fact, the public witness of the Christian faith was a... from a Roman Catholic point of view for ... from a Protestant or evangelical point of view was going entirely be default and that as far as public issues were concerned which concerned particularly the families, all of us were parents of several children and we were very concerned as to what was happening, particularly in the schools. This witness, this Christian witness to such issues was not being heard at all. And I would say as far as Switzerland is concerned, from particularly a Protestant point of view, had not been heard for at least a century.

[ Rushdoony ] The churches have been dead, as it were, that long.

[ Berteau ] Well, it is a difficult story to tell, because Switzerland is known as the source of the Reformation. Everyone knows that Calvin established the Reformation in Geneva, that the {?} where I come from was the reformed {?} with one of the finest reformers {?} called {?} who was the main preacher of the cathedral of {?} for a number of years before the {?} authorities were dominated. The region through him out.

The question of the relation between the church and state was already establishing itself in the 16th century. And people think that Switzerland is a country, a conservative country, a country which defends its independence with a militia army with greater energy. Many people think that Switzerland is still a conservative Christian nation and this is very unfortunate error because the ... as a result of the development, on the first hand, of Rationalism in the theology of the Protestant churches in the 19th century, late 18th and 19th century and the counter reaction of a revival of an essentially pietistic nature which had certain beneficent effects, but did not affect at all the public scene, the Christian witness on the public place in our country has completely disappeared, at least up till now.

[ Rushdoony ] A little while ago, before we started this easy chair you were discussing a situation with regard to narcotics in your own area. Could you comment a bit about that?

[ Berteau ] Yes, we have a lot of problem with narcotics. There is a considerable trade and very considerable demand for drugs, particularly in the big cities in Switzerland. And some of the statistics are extremely alarming with regard to this. Some of the narcotic traffic has been dismantled. For example, we have refugees coming from Sri Lanka, {?} who are coming into Switzerland and they are coming through the eastern European countries and the Swiss immigration laws are very strict, as many of you know. But with regard to refugees there are a number of loopholes which these people have been using. And part of refugees have been using this situation to introduce considerable drug traffic in my country. And one sees with a certain anxiety the ... the attitude of the young people who find satisfaction in such unfortunate practices.

This is also an extremely, well, very anxious also at the suicide rate amongst young people. It is the highest cause for death up to the age of 25 in Switzerland. We have this also in the northern European countries, but one feels that the young people have a sense of nihilism. They have no sense of purpose in their lives. The materialism of our very prosperous society does not satisfy them anymore. And one feels that because of the badly based family and school education which they receive which doesn’t develop strength of character, they are extremely fragile at the first trial that falls on them and suicide comes extremely easily.

And for a while the government refused to publish the statistics, but we managed to get these statistics recently and they are very, very disturbing.

On the whole one has the impression in Switzerland and in many European countries that these societies have no longer any desire to survive. They have kind of a death wish, death instinct. They do not reproduce. The reproduction rate is very low. If it were not for foreign introduction of foreign populations who have a tendency to have more children already the situation would be much worse than it is now.

This is really quite tragic, because the heritage which gave meaning to our civilization to the Christian heritage both from the Roman Catholic and from the Protestant point of view has been petering off. I will just give you one statistic. For example, church going attendance in Switzerland is about five percent on Sunday.

[ Rushdoony ] Well, that is more than is reported in England and I believe more than is reported for France, is it not?

[ Berteau ] Well, I don’t know for the statistics in France, but I know that there you have a very strong religious decline. With regard to France the reformed churches have completely abandoned the reformed faith and any confidence whatsoever in the Scriptures. And the faculties are all ... have all gone over to liberal or Neo Orthodox teaching and, more than that, to liberation theology and things of this kind. Amongst the evangelicals you have a certain revival by the establishment of new churches in different parts of the country, but this is a very small beginning. In the Roman Catholic Church there is an extraordinary disarray because the bishops and the hierarchy and many of the priests are not giving any clear direction any more.

It is very unfortunate, for example, on the ... you may have heard of a very violent controversy between the government and the Roman Catholic schools of France of about a year and a half ago when the biggest mass demonstrations ever recorded in French history took place in different French towns and particularly in Paris where you had more than a million parents, indignant parents gathered together. The direction of these meetings was in the hands of the of hierarchy, the Roman Catholic hierarchy and some non Christians were very struck by the fact that in all the speeches made on that occasion the name of God was not mentioned once. So there was a desire to befriend the private schools, the Christian schools, the Catholic schools mainly in France, because there are very few Protestant schools. But they was absolutely no desire to defend them in the name of God.

[ Rushdoony ] Yes. That is an interesting fact. It is also, I think, very significant that neither in France nor in Switzerland nor elsewhere for that matter has the initiative come from the clergy, but predominantly from the laity.

[ Berteau ] That is absolutely true. The clergy... for example in our Christian Parents Association where we take up the issues as they come on the political scene and trying to give precise Christians answers in a language which is accessible to our politicians. We have had more favorable response from the politicians themselves on the whole than from the clergy.

[ Rushdoony ] Well, the suicidal aspect of Europe that you mentioned I think is very interesting. The United States, as you know, is a nation of immigrants. And, as a result, the people of this country have deep roots in some European country or, sometimes, other countries, but predominantly European. And they remember the country as they last saw it or as their parents described it, which is usually some years back. And they find it a shock to see the changes that have transpired. And I think what people need to realize is that Scripture is true when it says all they that hate me love death.

[ Berteau ] Well, this is absolutely manifest in our civilization, European civilization. And unless you have a spiritual revival that is a revival of faith in God and in the Scriptures which is not simply a personal faith and a faith concerning essentially affairs related to the Church, the institutional Church, but a faith which is founded on the Scriptures which relates itself to all the aspects of man’s life in his society, unless you have a revival of this kind of faith I think one cannot have much hope for a survival of Western Civilization in Europe. We are going to be faced with an invasion from North Africa, from other parts of the world where the population growth is much stronger. And we do not see even a possibility of surviving economically, I think in the long run. This is creating very strong problems in France where the present government has been opening the gates for the immigration from North Africa in order to create an anarchical situation which might be favorable of the exploration of ... or the maintenance of the socialist regime at present. But this is provoking extremely violent reaction on the part of the French population which is naturally not {?} at all.

[ Rushdoony ] You mentioned before we started the fact that the intellectuals in France have broken with Marxism. Could you tell us a bit more about that?

[ Berteau ] Yes. When I was in Paris in the early 60s as a student it was impossible to maintain publicly a conservative position on social issues, for example, on... in economics, for example, to defend the free market without being publicly ridiculed. I will give you an example. Some of Von Mieses’ books are available in French as from 1947 and they are not out of print. That is to show you the lack of interest there was for conservative economics.

Now partly I think as a result of the writings of Solzhenitsyn, which have had a great impact in France, despite some blockage on the part of the media, partly as a result of an experience, catastrophic experience related to the present Socialist government, particularly in the economic field, a great number of French intellectuals have become disillusioned with Marxism. They haven’t gone over to... well, apart from a few remarkable exceptions, they haven’t gone over to the Christian faith. But they have become disillusioned with Marxism to the extent that one can say it is becoming quite out of fashion in France and unpopular to be a Marxist in intellectual spheres. And I am told that this is very different from the situation in the United States where the intellectual elite—if one can call them that—in the universities are still very much influenced by Socialist thinking.

[ Rushdoony ] Yes, they are, very much so. But we hope that some counter trends will set in before long.

How does Europe view the threat from the East, the Soviet Union, the problem of central Europe and the captive nations. Or do they simply try to block out that problem?

[ Berteau ] I would say that there is a general minimization of the seriousness of the threat. Though we were surprised, really surprised to see that the tremendous pacifist offensive which created some of the American proposals to introduce missiles in western Europe to counter the Russian missiles. We were very surprised to see, in fact, that the governments stood firm and the pacifist propaganda was, in fact, defeated even in Holland, which was quite exceptional.

Now on the whole probably in France, to make an example, in France I will speak of the government now. The Socialist government was firmer with the Russians than were the previous governments of {?}. It was a much firmer attitude on the part of {?} with regard to Gorbachev when he visited Paris last year and could have been expected. But on the whole there is a general tendency to wish to think that the danger does not exist. For example, we get much of our methane gas from the Soviet Union at present and we are in a growing dependence on this methane gas from the Soviet Union and nobody seems to understand that this is a strategic danger.

I would say that the Reagan Gorbachev summit in Geneva was a major success for the Russians on a propaganda level, because I would... since Carter the Americans have been saying that Russians are... the Russian Communism is intrinsically perverse and must be combated at all costs, but the summit made people think that if Mr. Reagan could be so cordial and amicable in his relations with Mr. Gorbachev things must have changed and people are always speaking about this new man from Russia with his attractive wife and so on and so on. And any statement that Communism doesn't change in its nature because the structure is fixed is treated with a certain skeptical smile.

So I would say that the Gorbachev summit, the Regan summit was a ... a success for the Russians because they normalized the image, if I can say. They... they... people began to... to think again that there is nothing very different between Communism and other different regimes in this world.

[ Rushdoony ] You have been able to organize the Catholic and Protestant parents of Switzerland into an effective entity so that now the politicians know that you are a force in the country.

[ Berteau ] Yes. I would limit this, because we are working on ... it must be remembered that Switzerland is not a nation, but a confederation of 23 nations.

[ Rushdoony ] Yes.

[ Berteau ] And local government is very important, {?} government as we call it. And education, for example is entirely a local matter. There is, except for the universities, two of the big universities which are controlled by the central government. So our association is essentially directed towards activities in the local {?} in which you are situated. But we do intervene in the federal matters occasionally, but we don’t have the strength at present to ... to work on that level.

[ Rushdoony ] Now...

[ Berteau ] But we have had some success and we are very struck by the way in which our authorities are listening to what we are saying. We are surprised, in fact, by the attention that they are giving us.

[ Rushdoony ] How about the university students in Europe. You have had some contact with them.

[ Berteau ] Not very much. Not very much, because we don’t have enough time to go into the... on to the campuses and so on.

[ Rushdoony ] You have been on a few, though.

[ Berteau ] Yes.

[ Rushdoony ] And have lectured.

[ Berteau ] But... yes, but one feels now that there is a considerable case in Switzerland, a considerable indifference to any matters of serious interest. The main interest of these students is to further their own career. And there is not a sense of public service present amongst them or one doesn’t feel an urgent need for commitment to certain values and to act in society, even from the point of view of Socialism and Marxism are really to be indifferent. They case in Switzerland. In France it may be very different.

[ Rushdoony ] What you have just described is similar to the statements made by professors, radical professors in this country. They feel that the students of today are unworthy successors of those of the 60s and early 70s because they are interested in career advancement rather than any issues, any matters of national and international concern.

[ Berteau ] I would say this is a case accurate for Switzerland as well, but ... but this may be due to the extreme prosperity of our country.

Now to come back to our Christian Parents Association we founded this association in order to bring together Roman Catholic and Protestant parents to stand up against the secularization of the society particularly as it is involved with the schools and to the family issues, abortion, family legislation and so on. And we have been really struck by the fact that for so long the Christian voice was not heard in this field. And what we do is take up issues as they come up and work out biblical and very well informed, as well informed as we can response to these issues.

Now we have a problem which we faced since the beginning that the media has been immediately hostile to our activities. We have had no ... pretty well no hearing in the media, neither on television, on the radio nor in the published press.

So we had to work out a strategy taking into account the situation and trying to bypass this blockage in the communication. We have come to the conclusion that the media does any kind of information purpose, that they are ... the media serve essentially a purpose of distracting attention of the public from real issues.

Now what we have redone is to develop a list of personalities in different fields. For example, deputies in the local parliaments, judges, mayors in the local towns. We have... we can have access now to the clergy and the whole of French speaking Switzerland. And we feel that we have to reach out to those in authority, not to subvert the authority, but to gain their minds and their wills to positions which are sensible and comprehensive and Christian. And we hope that this work, in a sense, is a kind of long term evangelization of the nation, not an evangelization acting in the void as much evangelization does, but an evangelization coming to people, because you see, what we felt in the situation was that most Swiss citizens considered the Christian religion totally irrelevant to the situation. And, in a sense they were right, because the Christianity that was presented to them was, in fact, irrelevant. And we wanted to bring to the attention that the Christian faith, as it really was, the historical Christian faith was not irrelevant at all. And I think w have managed in this first {?} to attain the attention, to reach the attention of our authorities.

I will give you a little example. Three years ago in the {?} a new educational law was proposed which was the result of 25 years or 30 years of leftist agitation in the compound. And finally it was decided to establish in our schools what they call in England the comprehensive schools. I don’t know how you call it here. It is the unique school. You have no differentiation in the school system. All go through the same school system and, well, it was an extremely disadvantaged solution.

Now we were... we had reacted into the situation sufficiently previously to have attracted the attention of the educational authorities who consulted us, officially as they did many other organizations unto the... as to our opinions with regard to this law. And we answered this consultation not by discussing detailed aspects of this law, but by discussing the principles in this law and showing that the principles were contrary to the good of the society in which we are living and could not be applied that, for example, the principle of a single school system was not at all satisfactory in a society where people were not in agreement as to the nature in a pluralist society.

So one of the points that we did raise on ... in the brochure we published and we sent it out to all the deputies in the parliament, local parliament, one of the points we raised was that the previous school law authorized the teaching of Scripture in school. And this article which authorized the teaching of Scripture in the public schools was now deleted. They hadn't opposed it. They had simply removed it. And we saw this as extremely dangerous. This was one of the points. I mean, there were many others.

Because once the article was deleted they could say the Christian faith had no place whatsoever in the public education. And this, of course, was the aim of the legislator.

So we sent out our reaction to the deputies and on the day that the debate in the local parliament began, a number of conservative deputies met and they were absolutely appalled because they realized that the conservative elements in the local government were advocating left wing reform and that they were always being defeated by this technique. And at one moment one of the deputies says, “What can we do? There is nothing we can do.” And a friend of our association said to... in an ironic way, because our work is not openly popular, and in an ironic way said the only people who are right in this issue are the Christian Parents Association and the proposal. And to his astonishment he found that the 30 or 40 deputies present were in entire agreement with him. And that same evening I received a telephone call asking me what do I... what did I suggest as a strategy.

And, of course, we could not implement our suggestions in the... introduce our suggestions in the new law, because the new law was too contrary to the principles that we were defending. But I said we must defend one point and that is the restoration of this right of the schools to teach Scripture. Because if you have that door open, then you can later introduce many other things. If that door is shut, it will be almost impossible to introduce anything.

And in my mind, of course, came the example of the United States where the door has been pretty well totally shut in the public schools to any kind of Christian witness and Christian teaching.

And I said, “You must use this debate to make known the ideas that are present in our response which are... which you consider to be favorable.” And these ideas were used in the debate, appeared in the press and so on, not as the expression of our association, but as the expression of the opinion of a certain number of deputies, which was, in fact, far more effective.

What is amazing is that the article was reintroduced. And now we have maintained in the school system in the {?} the right to have biblical instruction. The quality of the biblical instruction is not very good, I must say, but it is at least an open door. If you take the {?} of Geneva which is just next door, this right does not exist. And school teachers who read the Bible in school or do any kind of speak about God in their teaching and so on are liable to prosecution. Just as it is the case in the United States.

So here is an example of the kind of effective action we can take.

Now we want... our wish is not to develop the association that we have to cover the whole of French speaking Switzerland or even the whole of French speaking Europe. It would seem to be that such an organization would not be very useful. What we want is to stimulate parents in localities to start establishing other associations of this kind and to react into the situation so that everywhere the minds of the people in authority can be brought to a... the thinking of these people can be brought to the attention of what the Christian response to the problems of our political authorities, because our ... if you develop a society in contrary to God’s law, you will inevitably produce dramatic problems. And if you have people offering sensible and balanced answers to these problems, then it is... we get the additional people, because they have responsibilities. They are not all ... many of these public authorities have some concern for the well being of their locality, particularly on the local... local level.

One thing we all should do because we feel that it is very important that our documents be balanced. We generally consult a certain number of orthodox theologians from the reformed Roman Catholic evangelical standpoints to ask their advice as to the declarations we make, positions we take before we publish them in order to get a more balanced exposition of the position.

We found that though this implies quite a lot more work, we arrive at documents which are more... much more satisfactory and much more complete. It is the kind of ... you... ecumenical council by correspondence, you know?

[ Rushdoony ] How about the situation with regard to abortion? What is the situation legally in Switzerland?

[ Berteau ] Not...

[ Rushdoony ] And in France

[ Berteau ] In Switzerland the abortion is only permitted for ... when cases of risk for the life of the mother and the right to abort must be signed, countersigned by two doctors.

Now, of course this implies a reasonably strict, I would say, total exclusion of abortion as hardly ever do we find a case where there is really with the advance of present medical science where there is ever really a case of ... of risk for the life of the mother. But in Switzerland the situation is varied with regard to the ... to the abortion issue, because we have Roman Catholic {?} and Protestant {?}.

To show you the decline of the reformed faith in Switzerland I would say that almost all the Protestant {?} have extremely liberal application of this law so that you can have almost abortion on demand, but perhaps not in the latest stages of pregnancy. It is extremely easy, in Lausanne hospital to get... to have... to be aborted, to have a child killed. It is extremely easy.

Now in the Roman Catholic {?} where you have a traditional Roman Catholic teaching still holding strong, it is very difficult to ... in some of the {?} the nursing personnel has refused to participate in abortion with the result that in those {?} there are no abortions at all, just in the hospitals. They, of course, go to the neighboring {?} which is not very far. But this resistance is quite strong in the Roman Catholic order.

With regard to Switzerland we had the rotation last year and the is will show you the indifference of the population to the issues. We had a public initiative launched by signatures gathered by ... we had perhaps twice the number of signatures required for launching of a public initiative, because in Switzerland you can launch public laws by initiative of the people.

And the was an initiative which demanded that be inscribed in the constitution what they call the right to life, that is that the constitution would protect human life from conception to what was called in the document natural death. It would have prevented legally abortion, infanticide and euthanasia and also in vitro fertilization.

Now in June last year we had a rotation on this issue. Only one third of the population accepted to vote, which is very low. Usually it is quite low just because we have too many rotations. You vote, perhaps 10 times a year. But, eight times a year, perhaps. One third of the.... on an issue of this importance, one third of the people of the population decided to go to the booths. Of these one third accepted to protect the life of the weakest elements of the population. So I mean when I speak of will to suicide, I think it is not too weak a term.

In France you have quite a liberal abortion law and we have had lots of scandals in France, of course, because of the use of these dead babies for cosmetics and for rejuvenating tissues. This ... we have in the... in France they have tried to... to have legal processes against these people, but without success, against these... laboratories.

It is... I mean, when you think of a child being used to rejuvenate old age... old tissues, I mean, it is nothing else but cannibalism.

[ Rushdoony ] Yes.

[ Berteau ] ... in my opinion.

[ Rushdoony ] Well, here those who have tried to call attention to the use of the aborted babies for cosmetic purposes are viciously slandered and again and again the statement is made. This is pure myth. It is not done and so on.

[ Berteau ] Well, we have a judge in Paris. I forget his name now who has written a book on the subject. And he investigated the matter very thoroughly and came to very positive conclusions on the question that there seems to be little doubt.

Perhaps four years ago a truck was stopped at the frontier between France and Switzerland, not far from Lausanne where I live. And it was marked. It was a truck coming from what you call an ice truck or something. A freezer.

[ Rushdoony ] Yes.

[ Berteau ] It was marked on the papers that you had veal meat coming from Hungary. And they opened the truck and it was a truck full of babies, dead babies going to factories in France for cosmetic purposes. This came out in the papers for once. They must be many other cases of this sort.

Now it is perhaps better also to speak of positive elements in the situation, because this is a...

[ Rushdoony ] Yes.

[ Berteau ] ... rather negative perspective I have given you. I From a reformed point of view one of the most positive elements in the situation is that for the last 10 year has existed in {?} in the south of France near Marseilles, a reformed seminary which has returned to the standards of the reformation, not merely the standards of traditional reformed piety, but to the standards of the Reformation. Considering not only that one is only saved by grace through faith, but also by the whole Word of God, not only sola gratia, sola fide, but sola {?} the whole of the Word of God. And it is extremely interesting because this faculty is developing more and more in the direction of careful studies on ethical questions.

[ Rushdoony ] Very good.

[ Berteau ] In a... the... they have a review which is called {?} The Reformed Review. The last issues was slated entirely to family matters from an ethical point of view, a biblical point of view. The previous issue on educational matters. So it is encouraging to see that you have a faculty there with a hundred students, five full time professors, all of them who have to hold to these reformed standards and who are giving a teaching which is really and conformed to the full orbed Christian faith. And they have reasonably good collaboration with Roman Catholics who are working in the same direction.

We have, with some friends, established a little view called Promise.

[ Rushdoony ] Yes.

[ Berteau ] And this review is geared essentially to ethics and apologetics, but on a much lower intellectual level in order not to reach those who are theologically educated, but those in the parishes, in the churches, particularly in the evangelical churches. But we want to go out far beyond that to reach even those Roman Catholics who are... who do not know what to think and what to believe. Our aim is essentially to educate the age group from about 25 to 40 who are professional, professionally engaged and who want answers, ethical answers to the problems they have in their professions. And this is very encouraging. We have openings in France amongst organizations which are developing evangelization in more classical way and they want to use our review as a doctrinal base which is very encouraging. This is going to open quite a new feel for our work.

So these are considerable encouragements. With regard to our Christian Parents Association I would say this, that there is a considerable demand coming from different parts of France and Switzerland of the establishment of other associations of this kind. And these could be met if it were possible to encourage these people, to go and speak to them, to show them how it could be done and so on. You would find people in the locality who could do this, organize it, show them the ... the method and so on. So there is considerable encouragement. I would say one of the elements which encouraged me most is the interest that you have in the United States for our work. This quite amazes me in a sense, because there is a language barrier. There are difficulties of culture, but there is a sense and a feel a great sense in amongst Christians in the United States that there is something dramatic happening in Europe and it has not stopped the situation of the United States itself will become extremely weak.

The Council of National Policy, for example, held a congress in Lausanne earlier this year, last year in June, I think, the beginning of June. And it was quite clear. I attended this congress and it was quite clear that there was a very considerable interest in the situation in Europe and the international policy forum had a meeting in ... near Paris in {?} later on in the year. And there, again, we saw that there was this anxiety about the situation in Europe and the wish to help and to develop the situation.

And I think this is fitting, in a sense, because if you look at Protestant tradition the Reformation in America came from England, partly from Holland, partly from Germany, but in this reformed aspect it came essentially from French speaking Switzerland, from Geneva, from {?} and from France. And it would seem to be normal that the reformed Christians in the United States or those who hold to the living aspects of the reformed faith, should take concern for those regions of the world which have given them such riches.

[ Rushdoony ] Well, you know, it is an interesting fact. The European heritage is very strong in this country. Most people assume that is predominantly English, but the fact is the number of people with a German ancestry is roughly equivalent to that of those with an English ancestry. The problem in computing the data there is that so many of the German families Americanized their names. Mueller became Miller.

[ Berteau ] That would give you... and I will give the example in the... in the reformed tradition of exactly the same case. Dabney. Robert Louis Dabney

[ Rushdoony ] Yes.

[ Berteau ] ... is a descendant of {?} D’Aubigne.

[ Rushdoony ] Yes

[ Berteau ] ... who was a remarkable theologian and poet and historian.

[ Rushdoony ] Yes.

[ Berteau ] ... of the later part of the 16th century.

[ Rushdoony ] Well...

[ Berteau ] And beginning of the 17th century.

[ Rushdoony ] One of our most famous presidents, Abraham Lincoln, his grandfather’s name was German, Linchorn.

[ Berteau ] Oh, yes.

[ Rushdoony ] But the interesting fact that is not generally known is how many of the Huguenots came to this country and disappeared into the population because they were so bitter against what had transpired there that they changed their names. They refused to speak French at home.

[ Berteau ] Yes. I can understand that.

[ Rushdoony ] The bitterness is intense. But that Huguenot tradition was very, very deep and powerful in the reformed communities in this country. Many of those people who lived out in the country, for example, in the South and were very poor when they first came here would walk 10 and 20 miles on a Sunday morning to church.

[ Berteau ] Yes. I...

[ Rushdoony ] And were insistent, even though they spoke almost no English when they arrived, that only English would be spoken. Their faith was intense and their bitterness about what had happened in France was intense.

[ Berteau ] No, it is quite clear to me that the French Revolution had its sources in the development of the autonomy of the French monarchy which considered itself above the laws that it had itself dictated.

[ Rushdoony ] Yes.

[ Berteau ] And the revocation of the Edict of Nantes was celebrated to the third century was celebrated last year with certain pomp in France and in Switzerland, an ironic pomp in my opinion.

[ Rushdoony ] Yes.

[ Berteau ] Was one of the causes, fundamental causes of judgment that fell on France with the French Revolution.

[ Rushdoony ] Someone told me that while Bastille Day is important to the French government, to the people Napoleon’s birthday would be more important.

[ Berteau ] Oh, no doubt.

[ Rushdoony ] Which shows that the official and the popular things are very different here.

[ Berteau ] Oh, yes, they are very different. We have a clear notion that... for example, in... in our country the people of the population is very anxious about these groups of refugees, the {?} refugees. And the government was quite indifferent to this question until certain recently in Geneva and ... and, oh, in the local elections a number of people a very important number of people started voting for extreme right body. At that moment the government decided to intervene. But previous to that it had no policy and could do nothing apparently. And intervened in a very stupid fashion, unfortunately.

[ Rushdoony ] Well...

[ Berteau ] But I would just have to raise one other point is the new matrimonial law which was accepted by the Swiss people last year in September, which completely disrupts the traditional notion of the family by establishing total equality between man and wife in the family and, thus, forcing the family to appeal to an outside authority of decisions. And they have established the outside authority is to be the state. Now a referendum was launched against that and we succeeded in obtaining a preferment, but during the rotation we lost the referendum. Why? Because the Roman Catholic bishops accepted this reform... this change in the law, considered it to be a Christian law because it defended the right to equality of the women.

Now it is one of the most dangerous aspects of our situation is that the higher it came in the Roman Catholic Church is going possibly more to the left and Socialist themselves.

[ Rushdoony ] Every time the state interferes in the name of equality, what it means is you will be equally helpless before the power of the state.

[ Berteau ] That is exactly right.

[ Rushdoony ] Every move towards equality has sometimes done something for some minority group, but basically it has furthered state power.

[ Berteau ] Many of you, perhaps, do not know that Switzerland is not... is not a member of the United Nations. But we are losing our national character so fast that there is a very strong campaign at present and it is going to be a rotation in March for Switzerland to enter into the United Nations.

[ Rushdoony ] That would be sad.

[ Berteau ] Now it is really said. I mean, I think the population does not follow the government in this. But the government has the will to participate in all these imaginary discussions that take place in such organizations, the illusion of power, of world power.

[ Rushdoony ] Well, the United Nations is becoming more and more impotent and yet more and more accepted as necessary which is ironic.

[ Berteau ] One other point, perhaps, I could make is that I feel the whole situation in the French speaking Europe is similar to that of the Macedonians who were calling out to Paul for help. And I think we need help in this way. First in prayer, I think, that we need the prayer of the American churches. We need also, for example, the ex faculty would need a certain amount of financial support because it is not dependent on any church being geared to the reformation of the reformed church. Of course, the reformed church authorities are standing against it and doing all they can to stop its work. And it would be interesting for Americans visiting Europe to try and understand more carefully the situation that we are faced with today.

[ Rushdoony ] One of the things that has led to the very real Christian revival we are experiencing here in the United States is the fact that because of the dereliction of the clergy, Catholic and Protestant, it became necessary for Christians to develop and deepen their own faith.

[ Berteau ] I think we have the same situation in Europe.

[ Rushdoony ] Yes. You had here all kinds of home Bible study groups, Catholic and Protestant so that the laity has become theologically alive and awake in this country. And your organization, perhaps, is the beginning of that thing happening in Europe also.

[ Berteau ] That... that is what we hope and we pray for.

[ Rushdoony ] Well, our time is drawing to a close. I think we have about five minutes more. Are there any other things you would like to tell our Chalcedon family before we conclude this session?

[ Berteau ] I am not at all pessimistic about the situation, I would say, because I think that what has lacked in the general situation in Europe has been trust on the part of Christians, on the part... at to the power of the truth. My father who was a minister and a missionary in South Africa used to say that evil and untruth are contagious, but the truth itself is irresistible. And I think that what has lacked in our situation and, perhaps, as well in the world is a clear consciousness on the part of the Christians that Jesus Christ identifies with his truth. And where his truth is proclaimed but in a way that is applicable to his creation, to the order of his creation, where the truth is proclaimed in a clear and balanced way it has the backing of the Holy Spirit and can have and has inevitably tremendous power.

[ Rushdoony ] Yes. Well, our time is up. It has been very good to have you with us, Jean Mark. And we will look forward to your return before too long a time passes and we pray for God’s blessing upon your work in Switzerland and throughout Europe.

[ Berteau ] And thank you for all you do.

[ Rushdoony ] Thank you.

[ Voice ] Authorized by the Chalcedon Foundation. Archived by the Mount Olive Tape Library. Digitized by ChristRules.com.