From the Easy Chair

Satanism

Professor: Dr. R.J. Rushdoony

Subject: Conversations, Panels and Sermons

Lesson: 161-214

Genre: Speech

Track:

Dictation Name: RR161DG201

Year: 1980s and 1990s

Dr. R. J. Rushdoony, RR161DG201, Satanism, from the Easy Chair, excellent colloquies on various subjects.

[ Rushdoony ] This is R. J. Rushdoony, Easy Chair number 313, May 2, 1994.

This evening Douglas Murray, Otto Scott, Mark Rushdoony and myself will discuss in our first hour the question of Satanism.

Two or three people have suggested this in the past year, year and a half. More recently Gene Neumann suggested it and said he would like to have it dealt with because there is so much being said about it now. In many fundamentalist and evangelical churches there is a great deal of talk about Satan. In other churches that are orthodox there is very little.

Well, we can say about that, first of all, the Bible has very little to say about Satan. Very few references to him throughout the Bible. There is a reference to him, of course, in Genesis and in Job and in Zechariah, in 2 Corinthians, in Revelation. All of these passing references. In the temptation in Matthew four we find a great deal more. But all told there is not much there. We find a great deal about Satanism in pagan religions, so much so that it reaches nightmarish proportions. The same is true of witchcraft. For example, although people do not talk about it because nowadays the premise is you don’t say anything good about Christianity or anything evil about non Christian religions. Some of the American Indian cultures had fanatical beliefs ascribing almost every accident and evil to a witch in the tribe. And in some of the eastern tribes, in particular, there were very, very savage blood lettings when people were killed wholesale and it took years and years and the decimation of the tribe before the anti witch movement ended.

Now in the history of Christianity there have been two eras in which Satanism and witchcraft have figured to a great extent. We will deal with Satanism primarily at first. These two eras have been the Renaissance and Reformation era and the present. For example, in some German states there were savage trials and persecutions executions of people on the ground of their pacts with the devil and their practice of witchcraft. And as recent scholarship has indicated this was a way of getting rid of some of the unwanted people in a society. It was something promoted by the state, opposed very often by the Catholic bishops and Lutheran bishops and others, but heavily promoted by the state.

We have, again, a tremendous attention being given in our day to Satanism, again, by the state, because consider all these trials from coast to coast of people, innocent people who supposedly are involved in satanic practices with the children in their classroom or in their recreational group. And the children are interviewed week after week and the ideas planted I their minds until they speak of all kinds of satanic practices that this particular individual committed. This is state sponsored. One of the most infamous cases, which Reason magazine recently devoted quite a bit of attention to, was that practice by Janet Reno in Florida before she became attorney general. Her treatment of someone who was accused of satanic practices and the railroading of that person into prison.

So Satanism in our day, again, has the primary attention from agencies of the federal and state governments.

With that I will let Doulas comment now on what he has to offer in a general way before we get into specifics.

[ Murray ] Well, I just... my own observations. I worked for a few years in law enforcement and during that period of time I saw a very rapid increase in the incidence of Satanism, ritual sacrifice of animals and this seemed to astound the San Francisco Bay area and it was never clear to me whether this was introduced into the area by the many different ethnic groups that have emigrated into the San Francisco Bay area from Central and South America and from Africa and recent... recent decades. But it is taken up by whites also who have been cut adrift from their own cultural roots through their education. And in drifting around, looking for something to attach themselves to, they experiment with a wide variety of what the academics down there like to euphemistically call belief systems in order to depersonalize the religion. They hate to use the word religion.

But I have seen first hand instances where children have been used in ... in Satanism practices and animals and some of the things are just unbelievable. I mean they are... they are so shocking. For instance, women who are used as essentially brood mares to generate children who are simply used for ritual sacrifice. And the worst... the worst practices that you can think of are going on today and yet they receive no press. And I don’t know if they are... they are certainly not kept secret by law enforcement, because the information is public... pretty much public record. But the media seems to ignore these crimes totally. As log as it is under the guise of the mantle of being an accepted religious practice, which the federal government has accepted Wicca, for instance, on an equal basis with Christianity and Islam and various other religions, the media no longer differentiates between one type of religious practice and another. They are all apparently acceptable in the eyes of the media and the media doesn’t make any moral judgments one way or the other. In fact, they just simply refuse to report on them, even though there are actual crimes involved, murder, rape, incest, crimes that other people under normal circumstances are prosecuted for. The newspapers see fit not to report on these crimes at all.

[ Rushdoony ] What you have just said is very interesting and I am familiar with that, but to me the significant thing was that for these practices there is no press, no media attention. And these are people who are occultists, Satanists, practicing and thoroughly vicious and yet those who are charged with Satanism, satanic practices with children and taken to trial are almost invariably Christians charged with these things which means falsely charged in every case I have heard about and, oh, one or two have had to go to prison. They have been wiped out financially. And those that are in prison, the evidence against them was really manufactured. And yet the actual practice in groups out there, the anti Christian groups, nothing is done. Have you heard of any that have...or many that have really been arrested and tried and convicted?

[ Murray ] None at all. The only individual who ever got into the newspaper was that fellow Lavey down in the... in San Francisco area...

[ Rushdoony ] Antoine Levay, yes.

[ Murray ] Antoine Levay. And he is the only one that I have ever seen any press on at all in the... at least in California.

[ Rushdoony ] He wanted the press.

[ Murray ] Yes. He did.

[ Rushdoony ] He cultivated.

[ Murray ] Yeah.

[ Rushdoony ] Otto, would you like to continue?

[ Scott ] Well, I think I wrote an essay about false memory syndrome.

[ Rushdoony ] Yes.

[ Scott ] And I linked the proceedings to the witch trials that you referred to in Germany and in Europe which carried on, you know, until the beginning of the 18th century. And that was fairly recent in historical terms and I saw a parallel between the accusations that are leveled mostly by women, adult women against their parents. Under the urgings of various therapists they claim to remember a lot of sexual abuse and satanic ritual and all that. And if I recall correctly, the first one that hit the national press was on a different level. It was a woman who claimed that she had recovered the memory of seeing her father kill her playmate. And he was put on trial for that, something like a 25 year old memory which she claimed to suddenly rediscover. And he is still in the penitentiary for life. He was convicted. And that seemed to open the flood gates and, of course, there have been a great many since. The latest I read was that the false memory... that there is a ... a foundation to defend the parents and it is called the False Memory...

[ Rushdoony ] Syndrome.

[ Scott ] Syndrome.

[ Rushdoony ] Foundation.

[ Scott ] Foundation, something like that. And there are 5000 families in it now and there are many more. And we have received letters from some of the...

[ Rushdoony ] Yes.

[ Scott ] ...people who have been accused. Now this is rapidly ... it... it is moving into the area where it is eroding the credibility of psychology and social therapists. And, of course, the ... the better ones are very upset because there are a number of illusions that have been fostered through the years. One is that you tell the truth under hypnosis, which is not true. Hypnosis does not work. It does not get you to tell the truth. You will tell what the examiner wants you to tell if you are weak minded enough to be hypnotized or be put in a semi trance or whatever. Truth serum does not work. There isn’t any way that any agency outside of your head can direct your brains or alter them to that extent, but people are very susceptible and there is a great deal of credibility, you might say, for the social scientist today, something... it has been transferred from the priest and the physician to the social scientist. And so people believe what they are told. They especially believe what they read. It is an interesting point. Most people will believe what they hear and what they read more than they will what they see. It is a very strange thing, but that is the way it is.

And Satanism seems to be introduced into these false memories. And it is true, as Rush said, that most of the victims, so far, have been Christian. Now as to why the actual Satanists aren’t brought up it is because what they are doing fits the modern libertarian, the incest and sex and so forth and so on. The press isn’t angry about that. The press is mostly angry against Christians and there is a pretty well established series of myth via the movies and bad novels to the effect that Christian fathers, in particular, are sadists, authoritarian monsters and so forth and especially devoted to putting down women. And this is ... this has now gotten totally out of hand. The thing that disturbs me most about it is the credibility of the courts.

[ Murray ] Well, this is... one of the things that I wanted to ask you: What about habeas corpus? I mean this 25 year old memory thing, you don’t have a crime unless you have got a victim which means in the case of murder you have to have a body. How can you send a guy to prison?

[ Scott ] I don't think they ever found a body in the case that I have mentioned. I think they took the girl’s recollection or the woman’s recollections. And some of the courts, some areas of jurisdiction have ruled that although the crime is, in most cases, alleged crimes are outlawed by the statute of limitations, they have passed some new regulations to the effect that prosecution can begin from the time of recollection.

[ Murray ] You know, when I... currently I don’t think there is now any limit on prosecution for...

[ Scott ] For murder, no.

[ Murray ] Yeah.

[ Scott ] But for the other, for incest and things like that, they have decided to begin the prosecution at the time of the so-called recollections.

Ands it is a very complex thing because it involves the breakdown of justice and reason in favor of a new version of ancient superstitions, paganism, in fact.

[ Rushdoony ] Yes. Mark?

[ M Rushdoony ] Well, a couple of things. First of all, apropos what Douglas was saying about law enforcement, it seems to me about, oh, 15 to 20 years ago when you would hear about cemeteries being desecrated, I can remember reading newspaper accounts where the police out of hand discounted any type of Satanist activity. They said it is probably just kids and that was the public statement. I don’t think that is so true anymore. I know we had an incident five, six years ago we had a student in the school, one of the first and last time that we took somebody who had been asked to leave another school. He was in the school for a couple of weeks and his mother assured me that it was all a misunderstanding and I found some doodles he had made that I was highly suspicious of. So I knew someone I the sheriff’s department and they referred me to someone in the sheriff’s department that was, in effect, the sheriff’s department knowledgeable person about such matters and he looked at the drawings and he said they obviously had been... he had... he brought me a whole notebooks full of material and he says, “This is where they get this information. This is where they are introduced to it.” He wasn’t a Satanist, but he thought he had obviously been introduced to the material. Well, anyway, he was out of the school immediately. That is one thing we are not going to work with. But it was interesting that the sheriff’s department was studying Satanism as something to be dealt with. He said, “You have to study graffiti at crime scenes, graffiti at the scene of a suspect’s homes, literature, et cetera, to... to understand sometimes the motive to things is satanic.”

A local bridge here on Perrit’s Ferry Road has had problems in the past. There was a chamber underneath, part of the... the workings of the bridge where they ... they... they have had organized groups of Satanists breaking in and... and meeting there. So law enforcement is beginning to take a second look and I ... more recently when graves have been desecrated there are beginning to admit... the news media... and it think the news media is the slowest one of all to recognized her is such a thing as Satanism. Horror movies, ok, when I was a kid horror movies were Abbot and Costello meet Frankenstein and Lon Cheney, Junior and Laura Wolf, but horror movies now are ...

[ Scott ] Are really...

[ M Rushdoony ] Are almost entirely satanic, occult, voodoo. Other than that... other than that absolute violence like a chainsaw massacre or something, very heavily affected with...

[ Scott ] It is true that...

[ M Rushdoony ] Satanism.

[ Scott ] ... that there is more credibility... they give all this... all these movies giving credibility to Satan.

[ Rushdoony ] Yes.

[ M Rushdoony ] Well....

[ Rushdoony ] Not to God.

[ M Rushdoony ] That is...

[ Scott ] Not to God.

[ M Rushdoony ] ... an interesting point. People are ready to believe in the power of evil.

[ Scott ] Yes.

[ M Rushdoony ] They are ready to believe that Satan is powerful. They look around them and say, “Satan is powerful.” And if they hear a little bit of a story about this and that and if you... any time kids... I have to... to be on guard because any time kids bring up anything spooky, you know, the kinds of things kids like to talk around, you know, the camp fire, there is a hush to almost an, oooh, to... to their demeanor as though... is this any surprise that Satan has power? People are ready to be awed by the power of evil, but even Christians who are indwelt with the Spirit of God aren’t ready to believe in the power of God, you know? Divine miracles, divine intervention seems to be something we talk about, but they don’t really believe it and they don’t believe it is a moving force in history, but when they talk about the occult, there is a... there is a fascination.

[ Scott ] They are very educated.

[ M Rushdoony ] They are ready... they are ready to believe in it.

[ Murray ] Well....

[ M Rushdoony ] They see it everywhere.

[ Murray ] It starts in ... in day school, in preschool, in day school. They are introduced to it at a very elemental level. And it... it increases.

[ Scott ] They are introduced to it in day school?

[ Murray ] Yeah, sure.

[ Scott ] How?

[ Murray ] Stories, text books now would curdle your blood that kids get in public school.

[ M Rushdoony ] A lot of cartoons now are supernatural powers. It is not just simple magic of the old fairy tales. It gets into some very unhealthy attitudes towards magic and things that are surreal.

[ Murray ] Teachers are assigning Stephen King novels as, you know, for kids to write essays on.

[ Scott ] It shakes me when you call them novels.

[ Murray ] Well... whatever they are. They are... it is assigned reading. I mean kids are given a ... a wide open field from which to choose and they are encouraged to pick those things that are popular, all my... in the... in the book stores and a lot of the popular books are Stephen King books and dealing with the occult and Satanism.

[ Scott ] That reminds me of an excavation in the Mid East, first century AD, first century AD. And it turned out to be remnants of the Jewish quarter, some city there whose name I can’t recall in that period. The Jewish community was very upset because they came up with incantations and spells, gambling devices, astrology, demonic symbols and all the rest of it, very similar to what you are describing now. And that was ... that was the decline of paganism when the pagans had lost their actual beliefs in their religion and had moved in to superstition, magic and all the rest of it. There is a parallel, I think.

[ M Rushdoony ] Well, it says something very strange when people can’t be impressed by the power of God. You think of pharaoh when Moses’ initial miracles to show pharaoh that God had sent him. When pharaoh’s magicians duplicated them, pharaoh wasn’t very impressed. God had to get pretty tough with pharaoh to make an impression on him. He got... he really had to humble those Egyptians. Those plagues would have been devastating to Egypt’s economy including, of course, the ultimate plague on the first born. When... when Israel rebelled, when they rebelled they just didn’t become irreligious, they became pagan. And God had to really humble them and to get their attention, because once they had... they believed in the power of evil and they were overwhelmed with the power of evil, God’s judgment had to take a heavy hand.

[ Scott ] Well, we are... we are getting AIDS.

[ Rushdoony ] Yes.

[ Scott ] And that is pretty heavy.

[ Murray ] But strangely enough teenage kids don’t pay any attention to it. They polled a large number of them, a large percentage of kids.

[ Rushdoony ] Yes.

[ Murray ] They have no fear of it. It is... they have this sense of immorality, that it is not going to happen to them.

[ Scott ] Well, what... however they feel about it...

[ Murray ] The bottom line is...

[ Scott ] They are lost.

[ Murray ] Yeah.

[ Scott ] If they don’t believe it.

[ Rushdoony ] Well, having no fundamental faith what happens is that each new problem impresses them momentarily. Herpes type II when that first hit the scene...

[ Scott ] Remember? Yes. Sweatshirts.

[ Rushdoony ] Yes.

[ Scott ] My Herpes is in remission.

[ Rushdoony ] So there was a dramatic reaction to it. But very soon it didn’t make any difference what new statistics came out. People were indifferent to it and it is not in the news now. The same with AIDS. It had a frightening impact at first. But if you have no fundamental faith system you pay no attention even though it is suicidal for you not to pay attention.

And this is what we face now. We have a blasé population that after a very short time refuses to see threats even though they are still there.

[ Scott ] Well, that is the philosophy of the lemmings. What is to worry about? Everybody is doing it.

[ Rushdoony ] Yes.

[ Murray ] Well, I think that just my own feeling is that at least 80 to 85 percent of the kids in high school today are suicidal and it is simply a question of picking the method, whether it is AIDS, whether they poison themselves with drugs or alcohol. It is a.... it is a question of the means. There is, you know, just around here locally and this is a fairly low pressure area for the high school compared to the big city. I don't think that a maximum of 15 percent of the kids how they graduate in class escape that syndrome that, you know, go on to become productive citizens.

[ Scott ] Well...

[ Murray ] I mean, you down there at lunch time and watch the kids file into that high school and I mean it is just ... it bends your mind. It is the...

[ Scott ] Well the...

[ Murray ] ...it is the difference from what it was 30 years ago. It is stark.

[ Murray ] This... it is almost as though there is a giant sucking machine which is taking the joy out of American life.

[ Rushdoony ] Yes. Apt image.

[ Scott ] Isn’t it strange? There is hardly any joy. We get these lectures on the air around the clock. Believe it or not in the... in the second section of today’s Wall Street Journal there was a headline that said, “Golf Courses Condemned as Unhealthy.”

[ Murray ] You can’t eat popcorn at the movies anymore.

[ Rushdoony ] Yes Well, in one area after another the joy of life is waning or disappearing. We regularly hear that this or that is not good for us.

[ Scott ] And nothing is good for us.

[ Rushdoony ] Yes.

[ Scott ] That could be a headline if they found something that was good for us.

[ Rushdoony ] Very true. We had a reference earlier to how ready people are to believe in things satanic. Belief depends on what the culture sees as having authority and power. And Kenneth Burke who as editor in the teens and 20s of the New Republic wrote an excellent book at that time in which he said that before the century was over there would be a tremendous rise of Satanism and Occultism, because having denied power from above, from God, our culture would seek power from below because we were Darwinian and all power would be seen as coming from below and it would create a tremendous rise in belief in demonic forces.

Well, we have seen that. And one of the things that it has led to in a lot of popular writing is that having adopted a belief in evolution there is no fixity of forms. There are all kinds of transitional forms that represent pure horror. And they are ready to believe that this kind of thing can take place so that they see power as from below as determinative in our culture and religiously they are right in tune with their basic faith, evolution.

[ Murray ] Well, Hollywood used to have fun with, you know, monsters. We used Abbot and Costello and so forth. They poked fun at it. But nowadays it is deadly serious. You have young children and the five, six, seven year group that have been introduced to this Freddy monster thing and it played very seriously in the movies. And they make masks that they sell to these kids so that these kids can act the part and some very gruesome crimes have resulted from this copy cat stuff from the movies. So Hollywood has a ... has changed in the way they... they treat this.

[ Scott ] Hollywood has become almost an avid social force.

The ... the hatred of this culture and its traditions that emanates from Hollywood is blatant and it is very interesting. You never see any psychoanalysis of the producers and the writers and the directors of Hollywood. Everyone else in our society, every other group is subject to analysis, but not that group.

[ Murray ] Oh, I... I hear that writers that do these movies, they are actually team efforts. There is no single writer, although one guy with a name may get ... the man or woman may get credit for the writing. The writing on these movies is actually done by a group of people.

[ Scott ] You can tell that by the way the plots wobble around the... there is... there is no coherent thought. There is no narrative. The... well, you know, Martin told me that he turned down an offer to be one of 12 script writers on Garfield comic strip.

[ Rushdoony ] Oh.

[ Scott ] Twelve.

[ Rushdoony ] Well, we have at least two script writers for television and films on our mailing list. And I told one I though that a lot of the scripts were so illogical and poor that the writers had to be on drugs. I was kidding. And he said, “You are more right than you realize.”

[ Murray ] Well, they are writing for a 12 year old age group. I mean the pre puberty group is... is what they aiming at because that is where the market is.

[ Murray ] Well, that is one of the great fallacies, this 12 year old stuff. The psychological jargon stops at 17. So 12 is pretty high. Twelve is quite high when you have only got 17 to run on.

[ Rushdoony ] Yes, that is part of the fraudulent psychological mythology...

[ Scott ] Yes.

[ Rushdoony ] Of our time.

[ Scott ] And the idea that adults can’t go beyond 17, of course, is part of the nonsense. I mean, what are you going not say about people like Rush and myself? We are in our eighth decade. Are we going not be limited to an adolescent age?

[ Rushdoony ] They started it, yes.

[ Scott ] It I hard for me to believe that the people who believe that think that there is anyone dumber than they are.

[ Rushdoony ] They started that in the testing of the draftees in World War I. It was a terrible slander of American youth. At that time their level of education and literacy was very high because you had a very thoroughly academic training just in grade school.

[ Scott ] That is true.

[ Rushdoony ] In high school it was comparable...

[ Scott ] ... to post graduate.

[ Rushdoony ] Yes.

[ Scott ] ...to post grad.

[ Rushdoony ] Right. And yet they said they were, what was it, 12 or 14 year olds and it created a mythology. They stayed with it ever since and the intellectuals have used it to show their contempt for the American public when the original tests on which it was based were fraudulent.

[ Scott ] Well, you know, Paul Hollander has written two books on this phenomenon of the intellectual hatred of America by American intellectuals. The first one was Political Pilgrims and the second one was, I believe, Anti Americanism I am not sure.

[ Rushdoony ] Yes, recently published.

[ Scott ] And I... I... the first one was brilliantly done. The second was much more pedantic, more difficult, but he is trying to... he is struggling with what makes these people anti American when this is a culture in which the intellectuals have done better than anywhere at any time in the history of the world and especially some of our minority intellectuals.

Now I may have a rather simple mind in this area, but to me it comes down to straight anti Christianity.

[ Rushdoony ] Yes.

[ Scott ] They hate the Christian history.

[ Rushdoony ] Yes.

[ Scott ] And they hate the Christian traditions. They hate the ages of faith and the memory of them. They hate the cathedrals. They hate the art. They hate Rafael. They hate da Vinci. They hate everything that has ever been done by the Christian community and that is where the hatred comes from.

[ Rushdoony ] Yes. Well, what you have is a definition of the intellectual which means that he... someone who has a critical intelligence and by a critical they mean the critique of Christianity.

[ Scott ] Yes.

[ Rushdoony ] This began with the German philosophers and triumphed in Hegel and all who succeeded them so that unless you are critical of Christianity you are, by definition, not an intellectual and you are not intelligent.

[ Scott ] That is right.

[ Rushdoony ] So we have a very serious problem. And we have the progressive war on the American character and the character of Christendom in the films. But very often when I am away on a conference speaking I get to the room after the meetings, 11 o'clock or so and shower and I will flip on television after I call home and after I have had my devotions just to see the news or to relax for five or 10 minutes and occasionally I will get a film. And it is such fearful horror that you can only describe it as satanic and malicious. It is out to violate everything normal in the world. And when young people and old are fed that, it is no wonder we are in trouble and it is surprising that things are not worse than they are.

[ Murray ] What is most surprising about it is that something like the progression that has taken place on the destruction of the presidency, which goes back quite a way, but really got into high gear after the downfall of Woodrow Wilson. It proceeded into a posthumous destruction of Harding after he was safely dead. Then the destruction of Hoover while he was in office. There was a hiatus for a while when Roosevelt was deified, but it resumed, really, sub rose under Eisenhower when he was accused of being an idiot and only playing golf. And then it surfaced against Nixon and Carter and Ford who was a bumbling idiot, again, stumbling and so on. All the presidents, as a matter of fact, after Kennedy. And now I understand after the funeral of Nixon some high school students were interviewed and asked. Well, they said, “After all, all the presidents do these kinds of things.” They were totally cynical. They thought that it didn’t really matter what they did, that it is... it is perfectly to be expected that a man in the highest office is a crook or a thief or a lecher or whatever. And when the unifying symbol of the culture ceases to have respect that culture is in a state of collapse because they ... you can only have culture when it holds people together.

[ Rushdoony ] In the days before Nixon’s funeral the night before the funeral at 10:20 television showed 10,000 people in line waiting to go by, many of them holding up signs attacking the media. So it became an anti media event.

[ Scott ] It was, yes.

[ Rushdoony ] And as of last night there were still thousands in line. They are coming constantly....

[ Scott ] To visit the grave?

[ Rushdoony ] To visit the grave. Simply because it is a way of showing their protest against the media.

[ Scott ] Well...

[ Rushdoony ] And against Washington.

[ Scott ] The media is part of our governing class today. You have to have a college degree to be a reporter on Podunk news. The ... the media is almost an auxiliary of the government. It doesn't print anything that this particular administration doesn’t want.

[ Murray ] Do you suppose that the reason they want a college degree is because they know you have been preconditioned to tell them what they want you to write?

[ Scott ] Well, certainly if you have a post graduate degree. When I meet somebody with a doctorate I already assume I am talking to a trained monkey.

[ Rushdoony ] I recall in the 30s talking to a newspaper man who was pretty well up in... in the power structure and he said very frankly that they did not like the college graduates. That was when they were beginning. This was early in the 30s.

[ Scott ] Oh, yes...

[ Rushdoony ] ...to move in.

[ Scott ] Yeah.

[ Rushdoony ] ... to the newspapers, because he felt they lacked the common sense that was required of a reporter.

[ Scott ] They already knew everything and they were a difficult... they didn’t deal well with people.

[ Rushdoony ] Well, getting back to Satanism. We have a culture that is unwilling to believe in God who is above us all, but believe in evolution and in Satan because they believe that power comes from below. And as a result, in every aspect of our culture, of our society, we are looking downward for power.

Take, for example, the ghetto youngsters, inner city blacks. They are the style setters own, precisely because they are in gangs, they are killers, they are style setters. So you can see children in affluent neighborhoods going around with baseball caps with the visor turned backward, a ghetto style. You see them with haircuts with the ... the top only allowed to grow long, a ghetto style. They are all imitating the ghetto styles. The inner city black styles.

[ Scott ] Yet there is an interesting aspect. Satanism in the true sense really doesn't believe in the devil, because the devil, for instance, always cheats. You sell your soul to the devil and you never collect. And the knowledge of genuine evil is nothing to laugh at. I ... I knew as a journalist some individuals who were about as bad as, I guess, it is possible to be. And some of their stories, some of the things that they had to say which they thought was funny would chill you all the way. So what we have here is the idea that Satanism or some of these silly women who call themselves Satanist worshippers really think that the devil is going to give them some goodies. It is almost a form of... of... of child like magic, whereas evil in the sense of a Mau Tse Tung or a Stalin is real, is real and if you really believe in evil, you walk a lot more carefully than these people.

[ Rushdoony ] One of the important statements in the Bible, perhaps the key, the key statement about Satan comes from Paul in 2 Corinthians the 11th chapter verses 13 to 15. He says, “For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. And no marvel for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness or justice whose end shall be according to their works.”

Now what Paul is saying is that if you want to see where Satan is, look where things are most important, high in the church, high in the state. The people who as against the Word of God present themselves as the ministers of justice.

[ Scott ] The goodness party.

[ Rushdoony ] Yes. The goodness party.

[ Scott ] You can go by their results.

[ Rushdoony ] Yes. All you have to do is to look at what Washington has produced for several generations and you have people who have presented themselves as the ministers of justice of righteousness and who have brought more and more evil upon this country. So we have to see, if we are going to be biblical, Satanism as a counterfeit good.

[ Scott ] Well, I have always thought of Judas. I have always thought of Judas’ comment on Mary Magdalene’s gift, that he immediately intervened. It was too good for Jesus. That money should be given to the poor, said Judas.

[ Rushdoony ] Yes.

[ Scott ] Ands you hear this all the time.

[ Rushdoony ] Yes.

[ M Rushdoony ] Remember, he was the keeper of the ... the common purse.

[ Scott ] He was... he was... he was the treasurer. He had his hand on it.

[ Rushdoony ] Yes.

[ Scott ] He wanted it.

[ Rushdoony ] And he was a thief.

[ Scott ] And he was going to give it to the poor. That is a ... Yes.

[ Rushdoony ] They are still doing it.

[ Scott ] Aren’t they?

[ Murray ] With a...

[ Rushdoony ] In Washington, especially. There you have your pretended ministers of light. And you have them in various church organizations where they have a concept of justice which is not in tune with the law of God.

[ Scott ] Well, Jesus constantly attacked hypocrites.

[ Rushdoony ] Yes. Yes.

[ Scott ] That was the... the greatest sin that is most repeated denunciations were for it.

[ Rushdoony ] That is right. Well, we have to look for the key works of Satan where people, apart from the Word of God are most eager to say this is the way of justice. This is the way of goodness, of peace, of light.

[ Scott ] C. S. Lewis called it that hideous strength.

[ Rushdoony ] Yes.

[ Scott ] ... in his last book. And it was... I have forgotten the name of the society. I believe it was the society of brotherhood. I am not positive, that he held aloft.

[ Rushdoony ] Well, we have them everywhere. They unite in terms of their academic credentials. They unite in terms of their high church and state offices. They are the ministers of light, of justice.

[ Scott ] Well have you ever heard of anybody who can speak more about I feel your pain than our president?

[ Rushdoony ] Well, we have had a number of presidents who have certainly not taken us any closer to heaven. They have done a good job in taking us in the other direction.

[ Scott ] Taking us to the cleaners as well.

[ Rushdoony ] Yes.

[ Scott ] That is a version of evil that you hardly ever see coming out of Hollywood. And it comes to close to home.

[ Rushdoony ] Yes. I think the subject of Satanism is a very, very crucial one in our time. We have too much of a concentration on certain aspects of Satan and not on the others, the pretended ministers of light and of justice. And every election we get we have a satanic program presented by both parties and they are going to show us how we can be saved as a country when what they have done is to take us further down the road.

[ Scott ] They all have a plan.

[ Rushdoony ] Yes.

[ Scott ] I have that. I worked with a man in New York. He was a president, I was a vice president of a small agency at 400 Madison and he pulled ploy on me one day. He said, “What makes a good man?” I said, “I don’t know.” He said, “A man who does good.” I said, “How does he know?” And he didn’t know what I meant.

[ Rushdoony ] Yes.

[ Scott ] Now you know how often you have tried to do good and put yourself into the swamp all the way up to you knees. It isn’t easy.

[ Murray ] And we have a whole country that can’t tell the difference.

[ Scott ] Well, as long as the plan sounds good.

[ Rushdoony ] Well, we have got to remember that Stalin presented his plans as the...

[ Scott ] I remember that.

[ Rushdoony ] ... as the ultimate in good.

[ Scott ] The five year plans.

[ Rushdoony ] For the salvation of man.

[ Scott ] Yes, the new Soviet man.

[ Rushdoony ] Yes. And...

[ Murray ] So each one is going to get the same thing in the five year plans.

[ Rushdoony ] He also held that to scramble eggs you had to break them. So he broke then and one book of a few years ago by someone who spent years in a slave labor camp, his father was one of the original Bolsheviks. He researched Stalin’s crimes and found that 100 million people had been killed by Stalin. This was not counting what his successors did. Brezhnev was every bit as evil as Stalin. So all this in the name of good and ultimate world order.

[ Scott ] Which is no different than the new world order which is no different than the one world of Wendell Willkie which is no different than the League of Nations. We have been listening to this nonsense for a long time. But you remind me that this century has seen the most outstanding examples of evil of any century in history.

[ Rushdoony ] Yes. And a higher percentage of mankind has been murdered in one way or another than in any other century in all history.

[ Murray ] Tonight they are talking about in the news of military intervention in Haiti, which, of course, is... Well, there is lots of voodoo going on.

[ Scott ] Well, we have done that before, you know.

[ Murray ] Well...

[ Rushdoony ] Yes.

[ Scott ] And there is Haiti.

[ Murray ] Yeah.

[ Scott ] Who... who is to blame for Haiti?

[ Murray ] But the plan is going to make his ... the military says that the troops will have to stay there for years. And what an opportunity for Satan to indoctrinate U S troops in voodoo and...

[ Rushdoony ] Yes.

[ Murray ] ... and Satanism and ...

[ Rushdoony ] And with the high rate of AIDS in Haiti, our troops will very easily be contaminated.

[ Murray ] And bring it... and bring it back to the United States.

[ Rushdoony ] Yes.

[ Murray ] In great numbers.

[ Scott ] Racial... racial politics at its worst. We have got one million Haitians here now. And there is a big drive by the black caucus to bring in all the rest. They feel they have a right to live here. And there isn’t anything we can do for Haiti. Haiti is a basket case and it has been ever since it killed and expelled the whites.

[ Rushdoony ] Under the French it was the jewel of their empire because of its wealth and productivity. Since then it has been the worst spot in the Americas in terms of everything, income, disease, crime, everything.

[ Scott ] How many presidents have sent troops to Haiti? Right after the Civil War we were ....

[ Rushdoony ] Yes.

[ Scott ] ...trying to help Haiti. And that was over 100 years ago.

[ Rushdoony ] Yes. It was called Imperialism a few years back.

[ Scott ] Yes.

[ Rushdoony ] That we had done that.

[ Scott ] {?}

[ Rushdoony ] And now we are going to do it all over the world.

[ Scott ] Yeah, well, now we will... it is... it is not Imperialism when you have compassion.

[ Rushdoony ] And when you have the right people.

[ Scott ] Yeah, well, that is true.

[ Rushdoony ] ...doing it.

[ Scott ] Yes, that is true.

[ Rushdoony ] ...in the name of good.

[ Scott ] Yes, yes.

[ Rushdoony ] Well that is Satanism. Well, our time is about up. Thank you all for listening and God bless you.

[ Voice ] Authorized by the Chalcedon Foundation. Archived by the Mount Olive Tape Library. Digitized by ChristRules.com.