From the Easy Chair
Many Consequences of Educational Anomalies
Professor: Dr. R.J. Rushdoony
Subject: Conversations, Panels and Sermons
Lesson: 146-214
Genre: Speech
Track:
Dictation Name: RR161CY188
Year: 1980s and 1990s
Dr. R. J. Rushdoony, RR161CY188, Many Consequences of Educational Anomalies, from the Easy Chair, excellent colloquies on various subjects.
[ Rushdoony ] This is R. J. Rushdoony, Easy Chair number 298, August 26th, 1993.
Otto Scott and I are going to continue in this hour listening to and questioning Sam Blumenfeld whose work in promoting phonics and home education has taken him from England to Australia and many points in between. He has been designated by the NEA as public education enemy number one. So you know he has been very, very effective.
Sam, what would you like to share with us now?
[ Blumenfeld ] Well, I ... as I mentioned in the previous tape, Dr. Seuss did not write his books out of his own head. He was given these words by publishers and I want to quote from an interview that he gave to Arizona magazine in June, 1981. He told the interviewer, quote, “They think I did it in 20 minutes. That darned Cat in the Hat took nine months until I was satisfied. I did it for text book house and they sent me a word list. That was due to the Dewey revolt in the 20s in which they threw out phonic reading and went to word recognition as if you are reading Chinese pictographs instead of blending sounds of different letters. I think killing phonics was one of the greatest causes of illiteracy in the country. Anyway, they had it all worked out that a healthy child at the age of four can learn so many words in a week and that is all. So there were 223 words to use in this book. I read the list three times and I almost went out of my head. I said, ‘I will read it once more and if I can find two words that rhyme, that will be the title of my book.’ That is genius at work. I found cat and hat and I said, the title will be The Cat in the Hat,” unquote.
Well, there you have it from Dr. Seuss himself that he was given these words by these look say publishing people who wanted these... these children to be trained to look at words as little pictographs so that when they would go to school they would be ready for the look say books.
[ Scott ] Of course, the question that arises, and if you forgive me...
[ Blumenfeld ] Yes.
[ Scott ] ...that arises... that Bob brought up and which arises in my mind as well is: Did they... do they understand the extent of the damage that they are creating?
[ Blumenfeld ] Oh, I believe they do. But they don’t call it damage. They are changing society. You know, what we have... what we have had in America was a very brief respite in the history of the human race.
[ Scott ] True.
[ Blumenfeld ] Where you always had an elite. You had an Egyptian style kind of system, the pyramid, you know.
[ Scott ] Yeah.
[ Blumenfeld ] Where you have a small group at the top.
[ Scott ] Right.
[ Blumenfeld ] And everybody else is sort of... sort of subordinate. And they are...
[ Scott ] {?}
[ Blumenfeld ] ... there seems to be a kind of compulsion or imperative on the part of certain types of people who want to rule to make sure that everybody else under them is controllable.
[ Scott ] Well, it is true. The urge to power...
[ Blumenfeld ] Yes.
[ Scott ] ... is basic and it is the original sin, practically, to be is god.
[ Blumenfeld ] Right.
[ Scott ] ...over other people. Every government consists of a minority ruling a majority. So no matter what form of government you have, you will always have an elite. Otherwise you cannot have a government. The American ideal, the American dream, the original American dream was that the people would be able to limit the power of the government. That was the original...
[ Blumenfeld ] Yes.
[ Scott ] ... American...
[ Blumenfeld ] Yes.
[ Scott ] ...dream, that the government would not get out of control and start controlling the people.
[ Blumenfeld ] Right.
[ Scott ] And it also because it was an electoral government and didn’t have a hereditary aristocracy or elite, whichever you want to call it, that merit would enable people to rise to become part of the ruling minority. Well, of course, the ink wasn’t dry on the Constitution before they began to fussy around with that idea.
[ Blumenfeld ] Yes.
[ Rushdoony ] One of the interesting things looking at this problem and looking at the future is this. Here in California when the Depression hit you never heard John Dewey’s name at the Berkeley school of education at the University of California because in those days before the one man one vote decision of the Supreme Court every county had its senator. The county senators were very conservative for the most part. They cracked the whip over the educators. They wanted good, solid basic education. So Stanford could teach one thing because it depended on the wealthy, but Berkeley, they were afraid of the farmers and their power and their senators. But now, you see, they have taken that power away from the rural areas which once had their own senators, county by county. And we hope with the coming crash there will be a ... a reversion to a more basic perspective. But, of course, the deck has been loaded against it in advance.
[ Scott ] Well, we have had, you know, I spoke to the counsel on national policy about eliminating tenure in education, in the judiciary and in congress. And I remember at that time is aid we don’t even have to do anything to promote this. All we have to do is to talk about it. And when we get echoes back from the trees and the rocks we know that the time is right for organization.
[ Blumenfeld ] Yes.
[ Scott ] And it has now flooded through the country. We are going to have a crash and we are going to have a restructure.
[ Rushdoony ] Yes.
[ Scott ] I... I think there is no question about that. The big race here, the big query is will we be able to restore freedom before we are locked up?
[ Rushdoony ] Yes.
[ Blumenfeld ] Well, that... that is the problem. What do you think of term limits? Are you for...
[ Scott ] Yes.
[ Rushdoony ] Yes.
[ Scott ] I... well....I... I called it tenure.
[ Blumenfeld ] Yes, all right. I just wanted to...
[ Scott ] That... and... and that is what I meant. I... I don’t think we should have judges for life.
[ Blumenfeld ] Yeah, yeah.
[ Scott ] And I don’t think we should have school teachers for life. I don’t think we should have anyone else for life.
[ Blumenfeld ] Yes. the point, though, about, you know, talking of what is going to happen afterwards is one of the things we are learning about the liberation of eastern Europe is that it is easy to turn a capitalist system into a socialist system by revolution, very difficult to do the reverse.
[ Scott ] Yes.
[ Blumenfeld ] And that is going to be the problem here in this country. How are we going to undo all of these regulations? How are we going not undo this bureaucracy that you have in Washington that is strangling...
[ Scott ] Well, my...
[ Blumenfeld ] America?
[ Scott ] First of all...
[ Blumenfeld ] You know, I tell people that the two things that have to happen to this country to get out of Socialism is to get the government out of the education business and to repeal the income tax.
[ Scott ] Well...
[ Blumenfeld ] Those are two absolute necessities.
[ Scott ] Now...
[ Blumenfeld ] Would you agree with me on that?
[ Rushdoony ] Yes.
[ Scott ] Repealing the income tax, of course, has been an effort ever since 1913. The ... my solution on how we could go about this was that we should begin by punishing officials who... who abuse their power specifically in your community.
[ Rushdoony ] Yes.
[ Scott ] ...and against every incident that you come across. I mean, judges can be removed. Mayors can be dismissed. Governors can be impeached. Congressmen can be put in jail. And if the ... if the Christians don’t do something...
[ Blumenfeld ] Yes.
[ Scott ] If they don’t frighten the officials into behavior, well, then, of course, they will be enslaved.
[ Blumenfeld ] Well, you know, wouldn’t... wouldn’t you say that what Janet Reno did in... in Waco...
[ Scott ] She should be tried for murder.
[ Blumenfeld ] Yes. It is an impeachable offense.
[ Scott ] Every and... and for that matter the president.
[ Blumenfeld ] Right. And ... and the point is ... and now they are trying... now... now they are calling it tear gas. They are saying that they pumped tear gas...
[ Scott ] That... that is a lie. Well...
[ Blumenfeld ] It was on... it was on ... I just heard it this... this... this morning then on a news report on... about the Waco thing that now they are... they are trying to imply that ... that Koresh planned this suicide and that all they pumped in there was harmless tear gas.
[ Scott ] No. Well...
[ Blumenfeld ] And we know it wasn’t. And... and Janet Reno knows it wasn’t tear gas.
[ Scott ] Well, we have this... we have this problem. We have a ... a new type of journalist who is credentialed and who has betrayed the people.
[ Blumenfeld ] Yes.
[ Scott ] And this journalism now is part of our governing class.
[ Blumenfeld ] Yeah, I would agree with you.
[ Scott ] And the journalist is part of the establishment. So, of course, we have Rush and I and you are doing our best to bring out new publications...
[ Blumenfeld ] Yes.
[ Scott ] ... and new viewpoints and all the rest of it. But we have to see on the other end of the spectrum some action on the part of the people we talk to. They have to get up and start protecting themselves.
[ Blumenfeld ] Well, you are... well, let me... let... I can... I can give you an insight into that whole area. The one area where I find that people are doing things are the home schoolers. These are ordinary Americans, generally good Christians who are making a clean break with the statist, humanist institutions.
[ Scott ] It has been a marvelous breakthrough.
[ Blumenfeld ] Yes.
[ Rushdoony ] [ affirmative response ]
[ Blumenfeld ] That is the one... that is the one phenomena that gives me great hope.
[ Scott ] And they should stop worrying about what happens when the... when they are students, when their children reach university age, because by that time they will be better educated than they would have been in the university.
[ Blumenfeld ] Well, you know, one of the interesting things I am asked these days is what do I do about college? And I always tell these parents that not to send their child to any run of the mill liberal college, because I tell them that your child will be forced to read all the wrong books for four years and they will not only have the time to read the right books. I asked... I asked Rush the other day for a list of the right books, because people want to know what the right books are.
[ Scott ] Sure they do.
[ Blumenfeld ] Otto, do you have any suggestions for the right books?
[ Scott ] Well, I don’t, but I did have—and I think I can still find it. Do you remember the former ... I started to say minister of education in California who was driven out. And he went to a school in the South and I can’t think of his name.
[ Blumenfeld ] Oh, yeah, Rafferty.
[ Scott ] Rafferty. Rafferty drew up a list.
[ Blumenfeld ] Ah.
[ Scott ] And it is an excellent list. And he actually drew it up for secondary students, but it is ... it is a university level. It is a very good list. I will see if I can find it.
[ Blumenfeld ] But my point is that those of us who are... who have become conservatives spent many years unlearning.
[ Scott ] Oh, yes.
[ Blumenfeld ] ... what we had learned, you know, in college. Of course, you didn’t...
[ Scott ] Well, I didn’t...
[ Blumenfeld ] You didn’t have to go through that.
[ Scott ] I... I didn't have to go through that, but I did go through what Maxim Gorky described.
[ Blumenfeld ] What was that?
[ Scott ] Gorky said, “A poor man has to spend his youth learning...”
[ Blumenfeld ] Ah...
[ Scott ] “...what is available in the university.”
[ Blumenfeld ] So I... I ... but I encouraged them to send their children to Christian colleges, of course, the ones that I know that are pretty decent that are Bob Jones, Pensacola Christian. Hillsdale is a good college. It is... it is not a Christian college. It is secular, but it is still...
[ Scott ] But it is not anti Christian.
[ Blumenfeld ] Right. It is not anti Christian. And it is a good healthy atmosphere. And what about Grove City? Does that still measure up to our standards?
[ Scott ] Strong on economics.
[ Rushdoony ] Yes. But that is about it. It is strong on economics. It is nominally a Christian college.
[ Blumenfeld ] Yes.
[ Rushdoony ] But...
[ Blumenfeld ] .... can you name some others that you think?
[ Scott ] No, I can’t.
[ Blumenfeld ] Isn’t that amazing that a country this size that there are so few schools? I... I...’
[ Scott ] Well...
[ Blumenfeld ] I know I can vouch for...
[ Scott ] Well, there are... there are... there probably are others that we never hear of, because don’t forget you fall into the black list.
[ Blumenfeld ] Well, that is true. That is true, but the ones certainly that have...
[ Scott ] I would... I would certainly if people were really intend to send their children to school, to universities and colleges, I would have them explore personally the smaller colleges in their own state and region.
[ Blumenfeld ] Yes, yes.
[ Scott ] And assess them personally.
[ Blumenfeld ] But the problem is there that they may be reading the wrong books even in those colleges.
[ Scott ] Yes.
[ Blumenfeld ] You see, that is the problem.
[ Rushdoony ] You mentioned Maxim Gorky. There was a time when I was a student I read everything by Gorky. He was a very interesting man, quite wrong headed on many things, but a vivid telling writer. And he described a persona experience that has always stuck with me with reference to education. Gorky didn’t draw the full implications of the incident, but he learned something from it. He saw a Russian peasant beating his wife savagely. And it was so brutal a beating he had to intervene and the minute he did both the man and the woman who was being beaten turned on him. And he barely escaped.
[ Scott ] They do it all the time.
[ Rushdoony ] Yes.
[ Blumenfeld ] Yes.
[ Rushdoony ] And the woman’s rationale was he is doing it because he loves me.
[ Blumenfeld ] Right.
[ Rushdoony ] And it suddenly struck Gorky. I am coming from one perspective. They are coming from another.
[ Blumenfeld ] Yes.
[ Rushdoony ] And our education is based on totally false premises. They come at these children and adults where they education college students with a humanistic presupposition. But these are not Humanists with either a good nature or a neutral nature. They are fallen, depraved creatures. And that is the thing that is going to destroy what they are doing, beaus they are going at it with a false concept of man.
[ Blumenfeld ] I guess.
[ Scott ] Well... Go ahead.
[ Blumenfeld ] But, Rush, it isn’t so much... we know they are going to fail. I mean that is... that is not... the point is not that they are going to fail. It is the damage that they...
[ Scott ] That they are going to pull us down.
[ Rushdoony ] Yes.
[ Blumenfeld ] Yes.
[ Scott ] Now...
[ Blumenfeld ] While they fail just as ... look what...
[ Rushdoony ] Oh, I...
[ Blumenfeld ] ... look what the Communists did to Russia even though you and I...
[ Rushdoony ] I am aware of the damage.
[ Blumenfeld ] Knew of the damage. Yeah.
[ Rushdoony ] I am just ....
[ Blumenfeld ] Yeah.
[ Rushdoony ] ...saying why sooner or later it will collapse.
[ Blumenfeld ] Oh, sure.
[ Scott ] The Black and Decker hired an industrial psychologist who then hired another fellow who...
[ Blumenfeld ] That was already a mistake, huh?
[ Scott ] Yeah, he hired... he hired a ... a soul mate, so to speak. And sent him to some special courses. And then they hired a psychological testing service in Pittsburgh and interviews were conducted there while the psychologist watched through a one way window. I remember when Robert Applebee, an Englishman, was ... was in there. The fellow said something and called him Robert and Applebee said, “Only my friends call me Robert,” looked at the name plate and used the man’s first name. So that changed the tone.
But, at any rate, they had everyone in the company categorized as red, amber or green. If it was red, don’t... don’t push him any further. If it was green, push him. And if it was amber, wait. And they created a ... an enormous amount of damage to the company.
[ Blumenfeld ] Yes.
[ Scott ] Their regime paralleled the worst period in the company’s production and earning and it finally became evident that the people that they selected as top grade did not prove top grade on the job. And it was that simple observation which eventually came up like oil to the surface of water which led to their dismissal. In fact, a man who told me about it I said, “Who fired them?” And he said, “It was my pleasure.” The guy said, “What did they categorize you as?” And he said, “As an amber.”
So what we are talking about, if we want to use that as a microcosm of the system that you are describing these people.
[ Blumenfeld ] Oh yes.
[ Scott ] ... want to place upon like a template upon the people of the United States.
[ Blumenfeld ] Yes.
[ Scott ] ...is that they will destroy our productivity almost entirely.
[ Blumenfeld ] Yes.
[ Scott ] Now this doesn’t mean that if they succeed in maintaining an elite position that they won’t have all the fruits of the world, because the very poorest countries, India, for instance, has some of the riches people.
[ Blumenfeld ] Oh, sure.
[ Scott ] And the nomenclatura in the Soviet live very high.
[ Blumenfeld ] Well, as long as they can control the ... the dissatisfied people at the bottom or make them feel that that is their lot in life, you see. That is part of the psychological program is to get Americans away from this idea that there is an American dream of rising.
[ Scott ] Well, it... of course,...
[multiple voices]
[ Blumenfeld ] Yes.
[ Scott ] They have... they have lowered the dream to a house.
[ Blumenfeld ] Yeah, yeah.
[ Scott ] I mean a real estate agent’s proposition.
[ Blumenfeld ] Yeah.
[ Scott ] And how many men do you run into—and a lot of them—who are always ashamed because they didn’t go to a university?
[ Blumenfeld ] Yes. It is... that is exactly as you explained, but ... but as ... as ... as Rush explained, it is basically a platonic situation.
[ Scott ] Oh, yes.
[ Blumenfeld ] It is basically Plato.
[ Scott ] Oh, there is no question.
[ Blumenfeld ] And, in fact, aren’t you required to read Plato in every university and college in the United States?
[ Rushdoony ] When I went to school it was required.
[ Blumenfeld ] Of course. When I... City College I had to write an essay on The Republic. Yeah, Plato’s Republic. Now the interesting thing is can you be truly educated with a knowledge of the Bible?
[ Scott ] No, not really.
[ Blumenfeld ] And yet the Bible is not taught and yet I would say that you cannot truly be an educated in ... in the western sense without a thorough knowledge the Bible.
[ Scott ] That is true.
[ Rushdoony ] When...
[ Blumenfeld ] You can’t even do crossword puzzles.
[ Scott ] You can’t even understand literature.
[ Rushdoony ] When I...
[ Blumenfeld ] That is right.
[ Rushdoony ] ... took the required course in Plato we went through it as you would the Bible, page by page. And we had to know what the argument was. We were questioned endlessly in class so we spent an entire semester on one book word by word.
[ Blumenfeld ] Yes. Now why is that single book the one most studied in western universities of all ... of all books? This one ancient tome.
[ Scott ] It began... it began in the Renaissance.
[ Blumenfeld ] Yes.
[ Scott ] And the ... the licentiousness of Rome and Greece and its decadence just fascinated all the scholars. It opened up what they considered the gates of freedom and the ideal society and it went through the aristocracy. It... it... it broke the common schools and set up Latin schools so the bourgeoisie and the nobility went to Latin schools and everyone else went to a common school and was only taught in the native idiom. And there was a decline in over all learning and surge in upper...
[ Blumenfeld ] Right.
[ Scott ] ...class learning. So it began to set up education as the yardstick, not heredity.
[ Blumenfeld ] Yes.
[ Scott ] And not ability.
[ Blumenfeld ] But I think the reason why Plato was... was so lionized...
[ Scott ] It was the great totalitarian system.
[ Blumenfeld ] That is it.
[ Rushdoony ] Yes.
[ Blumenfeld ] That is it. That it appealed to the... to the elitist, the elitist mentality.
[ Rushdoony ] The Soviet Union adopted precisely the attitude towards law that marked Plato’s Republic. They did not affirm law. Soviet law was simply {?} of the planned society. You created whatever rules and laws that were required to further planned society.
[ Scott ] Well, the bourgeois morality was not going to interfere with them.
[ Rushdoony ] No.
[ Scott ] So anything for the project.
[ Rushdoony ] Yes.
[ Blumenfeld ] Yeah, the plan.
[ Scott ] The plan.
[ Blumenfeld ] The plan was supreme.
[ Scott ] Right. And this was one of the things that struck me about Clinton’s campaign. He kept accusing Bush of not having a plan. And he said he had a plan.
[ Blumenfeld ] Yes and that is that... and we are...
[ Scott ] And...
[ Blumenfeld ] And we know what that plan is.
[ Scott ] And it is becoming more autocratic and Totalitarian...
[ Blumenfeld ] Yeah.
[ Scott ] ...in essence every week of his tenure.
[ Blumenfeld ] Well, it is... and... and Hillary has her plan, too, for our... or medical.
[ Scott ] Just imagine what..
[ Blumenfeld ] ... restructuring of the medical...
[ Scott ] ... that would do to us.
[ Blumenfeld ] ... sector.
[ Scott ] There is... I doubt very much, Rush, if people of our age will be operated upon under Hillary’s plan.
[ Rushdoony ] I...
[ Scott ] We will be... we will be told... I remember that Malcolm Muggeridge wrote that when he was in his 60s he had to go to the hospital and he got a glimpse at his chart and it said, “Do not resuscitate.”
[ Blumenfeld ] Oh, really?
[ Scott ] Yes.
[ Rushdoony ] I think it is really...
[ Scott ] That was... that was...
[ Rushdoony ] ...unwise...
[ Scott ] Socialized medicine.
[ Blumenfeld ] Yes.
[ Rushdoony ] ...for people our age to go to a hospital and if not, it soon will be. I have been told by a doctor that there are cases of euthanasia and they are not supposed to speak about them at all.
[ Blumenfeld ] I am sure it goes on. I have no doubt about it. But, incidentally, I... I... did... I did want to get back to the notion of getting the government out of the education...
[ Scott ] Yes.
[ Blumenfeld ] ...system as a...
[ Scott ] Yes.
[ Blumenfeld ] ...very important step and I must say that the only political party in the United States that espouses that... of course, the ... the Libertarians do also, but that is not the important part of their... their platform. The most important part is... is legalizing marijuana. But is... is the one party that does subscribe to this is the U S Taxpayer’s party which was formed by Howard Philips and hopefully that this ... this party can ... can prosper in the future, because there is going to be a tremendous struggle within the Republican party.
[ Scott ] I think...
[ Blumenfeld ] For its soul.
[ Scott ] I think that is true, but I think your first point is that most people cannot now conceive of an educational system that isn’t controlled by the government. They have been raised to it and the universal education, of course, has been one of the...
[ Blumenfeld ] Yes.
[ Scott ] ... one of these dreams for centuries. If we had a private control of education so that you could set up every kind of school and parents or citizens in a community like the ranchers in the... in the early West used to get together, put up a fund so that the kids in the area would be schooled, we would have a diversity of education, because it is an illusion to think that only one set...
[ Blumenfeld ] Yes.
[ Scott ] ... of teaching is all you need to know.
[ Blumenfeld ] Well, tell me, Otto, how much formal education does an individual really need?
[ Scott ] He needs to learn to read and I think he can go from there.
[ Blumenfeld ] You are a great believer in... in self education, are you not?
[ Scott ] Well, I... I...
[ Blumenfeld ] You are a product of...
[ Scott ] Yes.
[ Blumenfeld ] ... of self...
[ Scott ] I am a product of it.
[ Blumenfeld ] Yes.
[ Scott ] Yes.
[ Blumenfeld ] And so am I. I believe in self education.
[ Scott ] Yes.
[ Blumenfeld ] And I think that all of these institutions are over rated.
[ Scott ] Of course they are.
[ Blumenfeld ] And that they exist...
[ Scott ] Look at the time they take.
[ Blumenfeld ] Yes. And that they exist mainly for the benefit of the professors and the ... because you go to these beautifully manicured campuses with their endowments.
[ Scott ] Oh, yes.
[ Blumenfeld ] And they take all this money from these students. For example, at... at ... at Boston University it costs 20,000 dollars a year to go to their school of education and after spending 80,000 dollars you come out knowing nothing. You don’t know how to teach reading. You don’t know how to teach writing. You can’t teach so somebody is getting 80,000 dollars under false pretenses. Wouldn’t you say that that is sort of a racket?
[ Scott ] It is crazy. Now Percy Spencer was the electronic wizard for Raytheon Corporation when I wrote their history. And at lunch one day a... a mathematical question arose, I was told. And he answered it from his head on the spot. And they said, “How did you do that?” He said... and then he went in to a very brief aside on his childhood self education. He learned the elements of plane geometry by constructing in the woodshed all the triangles and the rectangles, everything else that plane geometry deals with and, therefore, it became immediately obvious.
[ Blumenfeld ] Yes.
[ Scott ] Its principles were... were quite simple and there they are.
[ Blumenfeld ] Yes.
[ Scott ] And Percy went to the fourth grade.
[ Blumenfeld ] That is all he needed.
[ Scott ] He went to the fourth grade, but he emerged able to read.
[ Blumenfeld ] Right.
[ Scott ] And then, of course, he went to the library like everybody else, as you did and as I did.
[ Blumenfeld ] Yes. I loved the library. I mean I...
[ Scott ] And I spent years of my life...
[ Blumenfeld ] ...constantly.
[ Scott ] ... in public libraries and I... anything that struck my interest I would pursue.
[ Blumenfeld ] That is it. That is the way to do it. As a matter of fact, one of the problems that you find among home schoolers is a lot of the mothers experience what they call burn out.
I always tell them, “If you experience burn out, relax. Take a two week vacation. Tell your kids to teach themselves. They are not going to sit around doing nothing.”
They say, “What?”
[ Scott ] Yes.
[ Blumenfeld ] You mean my kids can actually teach themselves?
[ Scott ] They are thinking backwards.
[ Blumenfeld ] Yes.
[ Scott ] Well, you know, you can teach, but the pupil has to learn.
[ Blumenfeld ] Right. But, you see, so many of these home schoolers try to replicate a school room, a classroom, a public school. And they think they have to stand in front of their child with a ruler.
[ Scott ] Ah.
[ Blumenfeld ] Or a pointer.
[ Scott ] Yes.
[ Blumenfeld ] And they have got to instruct, you know...
[ Scott ] Right.
[ Blumenfeld ] And you get the...
[ Scott ] That is the way they were taught.
[ Blumenfeld ] That is... that is right. And I say it is a totally different kettle of fish. I say, “Relax. Take a vacation.”
[ Scott ] You know, Don Mc Ilveny worried about what to do with his boy who was reached college age and I said, “Hire two... two... one for science an hour a day in the morning and one for the arts an hour a day in the afternoon.” And you would be surprised.
[ Blumenfeld ] Yeah, that is all.
[ Scott ] The...
[ Blumenfeld ] But, you know, children do teach themselves, Otto.
[ Scott ] They have to.
[ Blumenfeld ] And it is a... it is a marvelous thing when I tell these parents to relax and let their children teach themselves. Take them to the library. Let them choose the books they want.
Once the children know how to read and to write, that is phonetically and know how to do the basics, you know, they are on their own basically. They teach themselves and you learn by getting in... getting interested in a particular subject by following your...
[ Scott ] Following your instincts.
[ Blumenfeld ] Your interests. Right.
[ Scott ] Yes.
[ Blumenfeld ] Right.
[ Rushdoony ] Our youngest daughter Martha has three daughters and a son. And the youngest of the three girls, Mary, was picking up some of the story books her older sisters had and reading them. And Martha simply assumed that she had memorized the stories because the girls were always reading them and had read them to her. What she didn’t realize was that the girls were teaching her phonics as well.
[ Blumenfeld ] Well, yeah.
[ Rushdoony ] And she was amazed when Mary said, “No, mother. I can read.” And she went to a paper or a magazine, picked it up and read it to her. This was before she went to school.
[ Blumenfeld ] That is marvelous.
[ Rushdoony ] Now I don’t feel that is totally unique. I think it happens all the time.
[ Blumenfeld ] Yes, yes. As a matter of fact that is the beauty of home schooling is that the younger ones listen and pick up.
[ Scott ] Sure.
[ Blumenfeld ] What is being taught by the older ones. Incidentally, I don’t want to give the impression that you ought not to ... children ought not to have the Dr. Seuss books. In other words, they should teach the children to read phonetically.
[ Scott ] Yes.
[ Blumenfeld ] Before they give them the Dr. Seuss books to read.
[ Scott ] Well, reading for me as the door.
[ Blumenfeld ] Yes.
[ Scott ] Now the diabolical thing about the people you are describing is that they are closing the door.
[ Blumenfeld ] Well, yes, they close the door to millions of children who don’t read. As a matter of fact, do you know that in this society that people don’t read books anymore. They are not even reading newspapers. The young people don’t read newspapers. There is a decline in newspapers. In New York City they can barely keep up the ... the newspapers they have.
When you were a youngster, how many newspapers were there in New York?
[ Scott ] Six.
[ Blumenfeld ] More that six. There were more than six.
[ Scott ] Well, six that I can name.
[ Blumenfeld ] Yes.
[ Scott ] Six that I can remember. There was the New York Graphic...
[ Blumenfeld ] There was the World Telegram.
[ Scott ] And there were...
[ Blumenfeld ] There was the Sun.
[ Scott ] All kinds.
[ Blumenfeld ] There was the Journal American.
[ Scott ] Right.
[ Blumenfeld ] There was the News.
[ Scott ] Right.
[ Blumenfeld ] There was the Mirror. There was the Times.
[ Rushdoony ] The Tribune.
[ Blumenfeld ] There was the Herald Tribune.
[ Scott ] Yes.
[ Blumenfeld ] You know...
[ Scott ] Yeah.
[ Blumenfeld ] And... and...
[ Scott ] And the Brooklyn Eagle.
[ Blumenfeld ] There was the...
[ Rushdoony ] Yes, the Brooklyn Eagle.
[ Blumenfeld ] The Brooklyn Eagle.
[ Scott ] Yeah.
[ Rushdoony ] A good paper, too.
[ Scott ] Yes, it was.
[ Blumenfeld ] That is right. Boston had a good number of papers. Now there are... there are cities with only one newspaper. San Francisco has only one, right?
[ Scott ] And what they...
[ Rushdoony ] Well...’
[multiple voices]
[ Blumenfeld ] They have the Examiner.
[ Rushdoony ] They have the Examiner and the Chronicle and they bring out a joint paper...
[ Blumenfeld ] Yes.
[ Rushdoony ] On Sundays.
[ Scott ] On Sundays.
[ Blumenfeld ] But Los Angeles you have the Examiner and... and ... and the Times.
[ Scott ] And they have no influence.
[ Rushdoony ] The Examiner is gone.
[ Blumenfeld ] Oh it is gone.
[ Rushdoony ] Yes.
[ Scott ] Yes.
[ Blumenfeld ] A city the size of Los Angeles...
[ Scott ] And Los Angeles has only got the Times.
[ Blumenfeld ] ... has one...
[ Scott ] Los Angeles has only got the Times.
[ Blumenfeld ] Isn’t that incredible?
[ Scott ] Yes.
[ Blumenfeld ] One newspaper.
[ Scott ] And it is a terrible paper to work for.
[ Blumenfeld ] And if it wasn’t for the Washington Times the Washington Post would be the only newspaper in our nation’s capital.
[ Scott ] And it lasts for a long time, yeah.
[ Blumenfeld ] It is incredible to think that. But the young people are not reading newspapers.
[ Scott ] They are not reading anything.
[ Blumenfeld ] They are not reading anything. As a matter of fact, if you will look at any of the best sellers today, just open them up, you know, these romantic novels. You will find that they are written at a fourth grade, sixth grade level...
[ Rushdoony ] Yes.
[ Blumenfeld ] Very, you know, short sentences.
[ Rushdoony ] Yes.
[ Blumenfeld ] Very few multisyllabic words. They are written at a Dick and Jane level.
[ Scott ] Well, I remember going through the mill of New York editing and by the time these little girls from Swarthmore or wherever that they use as copy editors, by the time that they got to the end of the book they had forgotten what was answered in the beginning of the book. And very annoying.
[ Blumenfeld ] Yes. One thing I must say about Reconstructionists that they have to be good readers, do they not?
[ Scott ] Yes. Well, we... we don’t insult their intelligence.
[ Rushdoony ] No.
[ Blumenfeld ] Well, my heavens, we depend on their intelligence. We rely on it.
[ Scott ] And we don’t write down.
[ Blumenfeld ] Yeah.
[ Scott ] We write up.
[ Rushdoony ] I have had a few letters over the years from people who not only say they enjoy our articles so very much, but that we are the only publication that makes them use the dictionary.
[ Blumenfeld ] Yes. There are very few publications in America today that are ... that you would call at a high literacy level.
[ Scott ] Harpers and The Atlantic...
[ Blumenfeld ] Well...
[ Scott ] ... are not worth reading. They ... you know the conclusion of the article from the second sentence.
[ Rushdoony ] Yes.
[ Blumenfeld ] And they...
[ Rushdoony ] I gave up on both of them.
[ Blumenfeld ] And the New Yorker... Yeah.
[ Scott ] The New Yorker now is going to its glitz. They... they ... all this pent up resentment of the ... of the New Yorker through the years has finally flowed over and they have got a girl now that has taken the pants off all the characters and it is... it is... it ... it ... it is getting increasingly vulgar.
[ Blumenfeld ] Yes. That I noticed.
[ Scott ] And... and disjointed.
[ Rushdoony ] I haven’t seen it for a couple of years.
[ Scott ] Well, you would... you would be shocked when you see it.
[ Blumenfeld ] Well, she is not a New Yorker, you see.
[ Scott ] No. She is a Londoner. And she has made some tremendous boo boos and she doesn’t even know it.
[ Blumenfeld ] But that is...
[ Scott ] But Ceausescu...
[ Blumenfeld ] Yeah.
[ Scott ] ... of... of no... no... the... the boss of East Germany had a lawyer and the lawyer’s wife sold an article to this new editor of the New Yorker. Honegger.
[ Blumenfeld ] Honegger.
[ Scott ] Or Honegger.
[ Blumenfeld ] Yes, Eric Honegger.
[ Scott ] ...saying what a great guy he really was.
[ Blumenfeld ] Really?
[ Scott ] I mean a mass murderer.
[ Blumenfeld ] Yeah. He didn't know what was going on at the wall, did he?
[ Scott ] He really had a kind heart.
[ Blumenfeld ] Yes. As all of these people do.
[ Scott ] That appeared in the New Yorker.
[ Blumenfeld ] That is... that is what has happened to American literacy. It is... it is all down hill and... and to resuscitate it, to recoup it is going to take...
[ Scott ] It is going to take the people that are home schooled.
[ Blumenfeld ] Yeah, basically they are good readers.
[ Scott ] Yes.
[ Blumenfeld ] They are good readers.
[ Scott ] And ...
[ Blumenfeld ] So...
[ Scott ] ... of course, you have the phenomenal individuals who appear somehow out of nowhere, even out of bad schools, I am sure.
[ Blumenfeld ] Yeah. Here and there...
[ Scott ] Because we have got, what? 250 million people.
[ Blumenfeld ] And now we are getting immigrants who are coming in.
[ Scott ] Yes.
[ Blumenfeld ] ... who bring some skills with them.
[ Scott ] Yes.
[ Blumenfeld ] And...
[ Scott ] And the Orientals are going to be more difficult, but on the other hand, they are raised to Totalitarian societies.
[ Blumenfeld ] Yes. But the Orientals do very well in mathematics, you know.
[ Scott ] Yes.
[ Blumenfeld ] On the SATs.
[ Rushdoony ] And the sciences.
[ Blumenfeld ] Yeah, they do very well. And you see more and more of them winning prizes and... and...
[ Scott ] Yes, but mathematics is a sort of a fantasy world. It is a self answering world.
[ Blumenfeld ] Yes.
[ Scott ] There is an answer for everything in math with the exception of a few conundrums.
[ Blumenfeld ] I... I...
[ Scott ] It is ... I am... I am not even convinced that it is a thinking world.
[ Blumenfeld ] Math?
[ Scott ] Yeah.
[ Blumenfeld ] I suppose it isn’t, really. It is ... it is ...
[ Scott ] It is high tech.
[ Blumenfeld ] Ah, ha.
[ Scott ] And we are getting lots of high tech. And we are getting high tech with lack of civilization.
[ Blumenfeld ] Well, you know, speaking of this high tech thing, you know, it is a double edged sword. It is giving government greater ... the great ability to monitor us, to control us because {?} magazine in today’s or yesterday’s Chronicle mentioned that with this health plan you will get a smart card at birth.
[ Scott ] At birth. Then they will ... they will have you from birth to death. You will not have a moment of privacy.
[ Blumenfeld ] That is it.
[ Scott ] Only this will not...
[ Blumenfeld ] Privacy will be completely eliminated. Between the smart card for your medical, you know, program that your computer for your education, your IRS, your social security, there will be no escape.
[ Scott ] Well, you have... they have us now.
[ Blumenfeld ] It will be total control.
[ Scott ] But it is ... it is almost like I remember seaman, a young seaman on a vessel I was on who wanted to ... who was playing in the poker game and losing and I said I didn’t play on that trip. I said, because, there are two fellows playing third base and they are crooks and they are very good and you can’t... you can’t possibly win so you... you ought to leave it alone.
But he says it is the only game on the ship.
[ Blumenfeld ] Ah, ha.
[ Scott ] And he continued to play. Now we are stuck in the only game on the ship.
[ Blumenfeld ] Right.
[ Scott ] And they are playing third base and the game is rigged.
[ Blumenfeld ] Yes.
[ Scott ] So we have to really and truly start acting like free people. We have to say the minute some official gets out of line we have to punish him.
[ Blumenfeld ] Yes.
[ Scott ] And they are all cowards.
[ Blumenfeld ] There are so many of them are already out of line.
[ Scott ] Well, the whole system is out of line, but we have to start someplace.
[ Blumenfeld ] I know. I would agree with you.
[ Scott ] Lectures will not do it.
[ Blumenfeld ] That was not...
[ Scott ] Physical actions sooner or later has to come into the picture.
[ Blumenfeld ] You know, {?} said that he... he felt the freest when he was in prison and could say what he ... what was in his mind.
[ Scott ] Nothing left to lose.
[ Blumenfeld ] Yes, the nothing left to lose. He couldn’t... you know, speak freely.
[ Rushdoony ] Yes.
[ Scott ] Yes.
[ Blumenfeld ] That was his idea of freedom.
[ Scott ] Yes, right.
[ Blumenfeld ] You know.
[ Rushdoony ] One...
[ Blumenfeld ] And... And we have got to be...
[ Scott ] We have got to be that way.
[ Blumenfeld ] Yes. Absolutely... Well, we do that in our publications.
[ Scott ] Yes.
[ Blumenfeld ] You know, those of us who... who... who want to maintain freedom are putting out newsletters and reports. But this is the underground press, is it not?
[ Scott ] Yes, it is. It is the {?}.
[ Blumenfeld ] This is the {?} in America, because...
[ Scott ] Yes, absolutely.
[ Blumenfeld ] ...what we say will never appear in the New York Times.
[ Scott ] But it has great effect.
[ Blumenfeld ] Yeah.
[ Rushdoony ] Yes. As you noted, they regard us as a huge movement.
[ Blumenfeld ] Yes.
[ Rushdoony ] ... that we are behind every door and in everything and...
[ Scott ] Did you... did you ... the... read that thing to you that woman wrote?
[ Blumenfeld ] That this Jody River wrote?
[ Scott ] Yes, yes.
[ Blumenfeld ] Well, she is...
[ Scott ] What Jody River.
[ Blumenfeld ] Yeah. She... yeah she sees a Reconstructionist under every bed now, you see. I don’t want to destroy her illusions, you know. Let her think that way. But the most powerful outfit in the...
[ Scott ] Well, then...
[ Blumenfeld ] ...the United States.
[ Scott ] The public relations on Madison Avenue I learned that nothing travels as fast as word of mouth. And it leaves no record. It leaves no trace and it is always underrated, but if you can... the ... the P R men at General Motors killed the Ford Edsel.
[ Blumenfeld ] Yes.
[ Scott ] ...with dirty jokes.
[ Blumenfeld ] Oh, yes.
[ Scott ] It got to the point where you couldn’t remember the dirty jokes about the Edsel.
[ Blumenfeld ] Yes. Oh, I certainly do. I certainly do.
[ Scott ] All right. Well, that is what...
[ Blumenfeld ] I read about them recently.
[ Scott ] That is what killed that... killed that car, the... the...
[ Rushdoony ] ... which was a good car.
[ Scott ] A very good car.
[ Blumenfeld ] Yeah.
[ Rushdoony ] It was a collector’s...
[ Scott ] They went ahead and imitated its lines afterwards.
[ Rushdoony ] Eisenhower.
[ Blumenfeld ] Yeah.
[ Scott ] But they called the radiator, you know, that looks so {?}...
[ Blumenfeld ] Don’t mention it.
[ Scott ] They called it the people screener.
[ Blumenfeld ] Oh, oh.
[ Scott ] They were good... the... the clean ones, too.
[ Blumenfeld ] All right.
[ Scott ] But they did it...
[ Blumenfeld ] Only the clean ones, please.
[ Scott ] They did it with jokes. They did it with jokes. And it was all word of mouth.
[ Blumenfeld ] Yes.
[ Scott ] Now the whole business of limiting tenure in Congress.
[ Blumenfeld ] Yes.
[ Scott ] Term limits.
[ Blumenfeld ] Term limits.
[ Scott ] That... that started with word of mouth. To end tenure in the universities, is a word of mouth which should travel.
[ Blumenfeld ] Yes.
[ Scott ] And your phrase, dumbing down...
[ Blumenfeld ] Yeah.
[ Scott ] ... which you introduced to the language is now used everywhere.
[ Blumenfeld ] Oh, I don’t know if I was the original, but I know I was one of the early ones.
[ Scott ] I first heard it... I first heard it from you.
[ Blumenfeld ] That is right. Yeah. Yeah.
[ Scott ] It is now part of the language.
[ Blumenfeld ] Yeah, the dumbing down, you know, phenomenon. But it is amazing that you can take a nation that was once the most literate in history and actually use the schools...
[ Scott ] To destroy literacy.
[ Blumenfeld ] To destroy literacy.
[ Rushdoony ] Yes.
[ Blumenfeld ] You see, that is the... that its he diabolical part of all of this, to actually use the education system as the means of diseducating, miseducating and also creating massive learning disability, massive dysfunction.
[ Scott ] There is hardly a family in the country that you can talk to that won’t say that they have some body that is dyslexic.
[ Blumenfeld ] Oh, yeah, that is dyslexic. So, you know, and in that school in... in North Carolina 73 percent of the kids have a form of functional illiteracy. Now don’t tell me that 73 percent of the kids are... are defective. You know, because they are saying now that it is all genetic.
[ Rushdoony ] Adam Smith was against allowing businessmen to form associations. And he generalized in a sentence to make it clear that he felt this was applicable across the boards to various fields. And his reasoning was when you bring a group of like minded men together in a common enterprise they are going to unite against the rest of the people. They will unite to organize and to crush those who are dissidents and will not be a part of the combine. And I think that was an important observation. I read and reread that years and years ago when I first read Adam Smith. And I realized that it is an important fact that, for example, when you create Christian school associations, home school associations they begin trying to govern each other, setting standards. It is one thing to come together for a conference to learn something, but they want to form control groups.
And this is what our churches have become as they have centralized more and more. They have created a control group at the top to squeeze out freedom at every level.
[ Blumenfeld ] Yes.
[ Rushdoony ] So in our time when every organization imaginable is being created and every kind of business or occupation is being licensed you are creating control groups which in their own way are dumbing down America.
[ Blumenfeld ] Yes.
[ Rushdoony ] They are eliminating the free spirited independent man of action.
[ Scott ] Well, this was the... this was the complaint raised against the masons, that in a... in a country of individuals it was unjust to an... it was invidious to a... all of the rights of all individuals to be up against a secret group.
[ Rushdoony ] A very important point because Washington in his farewell address alluded to that fact without mentioning any groups or names.
[ Blumenfeld ] Yes, yes.
[ Rushdoony ] And nobody has paid any attention to that aspect of his farewell address. It came out, as I have pointed out and maybe this month’s random notes or ...
[ Scott ] Yes. It was... it was in the one that just came out.
[ Rushdoony ] Yes. He made the point very strongly when someone raised the question about the masons and he said as far as he knew they were a harmless group. He had no contact with them. He investigated and then he thought that the man was right. Perhaps illuminist groups had infiltrated some of the Masonic lodges. But then in his farewell address he spoke out against any kind of secret or...
[ Scott ] Yes.
[ Rushdoony ] ... society...
[ Scott ] In a free country.
[ Rushdoony ] ... in a free country, yes. And that has been totally overlooked.
[ Blumenfeld ] Yes and particularly by people who belong to the... to the AL... you know, skull and bones which is also a secret society and has included such luminaries as Avril Harriman.
[ Scott ] Oh, yes.
[ Blumenfeld ] William F. Buckley, junior.
[ Scott ] Well, I tell...
[ Blumenfeld ] George Bush, William Sloan Coffin.
[ Scott ] I know of...
[ Blumenfeld ] John Kerry of the U S Senate.
[ Scott ] Well, you can go across the country and you will find that there is a counterpart to the skull and bones in every college and university.
[ Blumenfeld ] I am sure there is. I... you know, the fraternities...
[multiple voices]
[ Scott ] Fraternity brothers.
[ Blumenfeld ] Semi secret.
[ Scott ] And semi secret.
[ Blumenfeld ] Yes.
[ Scott ] And they keep in contact with each other through life, because in the United States today it is one of the high points of their lives.
[ Blumenfeld ] Yes.
[ Scott ] ... to go through the university. They never get over it. They never forget it.
[ Blumenfeld ] Oh, yes.
[ Rushdoony ] It is a substitute for the European aristocracy.
[ Scott ] Yes, yes.
[ Rushdoony ] But Washington’s point is still valid.
[ Scott ] Very valid. And it is... this is one of the problems that is plaguing the market, stock exchange, is that a network of which Milliken was champion for a while was operating where other individuals were on their own up against a network. Well, you can’t win up against the network unless they let you in. And it marked the ... this... there has always been combines in stock exchanges. There has always been efforts.
[ Blumenfeld ] Sure.
[ Scott ] There has always been syndicates.
[ Blumenfeld ] Yeah.
[ Scott ] Whenever they are discovered they have always been penalized, but there is nothing to prevent men from working together. And the ideal, of course, is that everybody is on his own, is independent and individual and so forth. It doesn't really work. It has reached the stage now, though, where the government is an active... an active participant in the stock exchange.
[ Blumenfeld ] Of course it is.
[ Scott ] It intervenes. It is... it is preserving the high price.
[ Blumenfeld ] Yes, it is.
[ Scott ] ... of the stocks in the Dow Jones and so forth.
[ Blumenfeld ] You mean by... through the interest rates by the lower interest rates.
[ Scott ] Well, it not only manipulates by law...
[ Blumenfeld ] Yeah.
[ Scott ] ...which it always has had the power to do, but it is, I believe, they are actually putting government money in...
[ Rushdoony ] Yes.
[ Scott ] ... to the market.
[ Blumenfeld ] I don't know where it...
[ Scott ] Well, I can’t prove it.
[ Blumenfeld ] Yeah.
[ Scott ] But there are purchases made on a large scale which are irrational. The ... the gold market, for instance, is not behaving rationally and hasn’t for ... ever since it ran up to 800 dollars and fell out.
[ Blumenfeld ] Yes.
[ Scott ] So what we have here is the corruption of our system by government intervention just as the government’s intervention has corrupted education.
[ Blumenfeld ] Yes.
[ Scott ] It is corrupting our commerce.
[ Blumenfeld ] Yes. But, of course, the... the stock market, the... the reason why all this cash is going into the stock market is because people are not getting anything from it.
[ Scott ] Well, it is the only place that would... well... the problem here...
[ Blumenfeld ] Oh, they are CDs and so they are trying to make a little extra money.
[ Scott ] Well, look at the difference. Instead of it... instead of subsidizing a smart young mechanic...
[ Blumenfeld ] Yes.
[ Scott ] Instead of subsidizing somebody who is going into business, they all rush to put their money into the paper market.
[ Blumenfeld ] Yeah, yeah.
[ Scott ] The Americans have... have no longer believe that work constitutes wealth. I mean, wealth is really based on producing something.
[ Blumenfeld ] Yes, yes.
[ Scott ] And to put your... take you... or that you have a low...
[ Blumenfeld ] Well, what they are trying to do is preserve the wealth that they have. I mean...
[ Scott ] Well, you can see...
[ Blumenfeld ] I would say that a lot of the people in the stock market are older people who are putting their...
[multiple voices]
[ Scott ] ... they should be... we should be helping younger men.
[ Rushdoony ] Yes.
[ Scott ] We should be putting money into younger groups.
[ Blumenfeld ] Well, they think they are doing that by putting it into companies that are...
[ Rushdoony ] They are big companies that are over the hill.
[ Blumenfeld ] Yes.
[ Scott ] In order to get onto the exchange...
[ Blumenfeld ] Yes.
[ Scott ] ...the big board, you know, you have to go through quite a... you have to have something.
[ Blumenfeld ] Well, you know, it is ... it is interesting that the papers are saying you see this. Clinton is claiming that the... the... the wonderful stock market is due to his wonderful programs.
[ Scott ] It has been going up for the last 30 years.
[ Blumenfeld ] And so he is taking credit for it, you see.
[ Scott ] Inflation...
[ Blumenfeld ] And maybe that is why the government is toting it.
[ Scott ] Well...
[ Blumenfeld ] The government is interfering...
[ Scott ] It is... it is... I think it started under Bush.
[ Blumenfeld ] Yes. Well, do you believe that there is going to be another October...
[ Scott ] Oh, sure.
[ Blumenfeld ] Another... well, the...
[ Scott ] Well...
[ Blumenfeld ] In 1988.
[ Scott ] I can’t stand it.
[ Rushdoony ] 87.
[ Blumenfeld ] Oh.
[ Rushdoony ] October of 87.
[ Scott ] I watched this balloon being blown up.
[ Blumenfeld ] yes.
[ Scott ] You know, when a balloon blows up and it gets to be large, how you hold your breath.
[ Blumenfeld ] Yes.
[ Scott ] You know the kid is going to keep blowing on it.
[ Blumenfeld ] That is right.
[ Scott ] And it is going to burst.
[ Rushdoony ] Yes.
[ Blumenfeld ] And then there is going to be a panic.
[ Scott ] Oh, of course.
[ Blumenfeld ] That is the problem.
[ Scott ] That is what we used to call it. I remember my father...
[ Blumenfeld ] Yes, it was called the panic.
[ Scott ] They never called it a crash. They called it a panic.
[ Blumenfeld ] A panic.
[ Scott ] My father came home and said, “Katherine, the panic is on.”
[ Blumenfeld ] Yes.
[ Scott ] I remember that in 29.
[ Blumenfeld ] Oh. Well, how did... since, Otto, you are the expert on economics, you have been writing histories of corporations for years now.
[ Scott ] Yes.
[ Blumenfeld ] What is your prognostication of this?
[ Scott ] You are thinking of time. I can’t put a time on it.
[ Blumenfeld ] Oh.
[ Scott ] I just know it is going not happen.
[ Blumenfeld ] Well, yeah we... we know that...
[ Scott ] We all know it is going not happen.
[ Blumenfeld ] ...sooner... sooner or later and how it is going to happen. But you think that we are headed toward the kind of depression that we had in the 30s with the deflation, that is where money contracted, where, you know...
[ Rushdoony ] No.
[ Blumenfeld ] No.
[ Rushdoony ] I don’t.
[ Scott ] We are going to have a panic with money as we have now.
[ Rushdoony ] Yes. We are going to have a deflation in the economy and an inflation in money.
[ Scott ] We are going down to the...
[ Blumenfeld ] That is the worst of all worlds.
[ Scott ] South American path.
[ Rushdoony ] Yes.
[ Blumenfeld ] Ah.
[ Rushdoony ] Paper money will only inflate.
[ Blumenfeld ] It is...
[ Scott ] China invented paper money.
[ Blumenfeld ] Yes.
[ Scott ] And... and they went through the horrors of ... that it created.
[ Blumenfeld ] But a deflation of the economy means a contraction on the economy.
[ Scott ] Yes.
[ Rushdoony ] It means...
[ Scott ] There were no jobs.
[ Rushdoony ] No jobs.
[ Scott ] There were no jobs in the 30s. But everyone knew that some day the economy would restore itself and that jobs would reappear. And what I am telling you now is that the jobs are not going to reappear.
[ Blumenfeld ] Yes. But the ... but the federal government can’t afford to let them... the money become worthless, can it?
[ Scott ] It will change the money.
[ Blumenfeld ] It will change it.
[ Scott ] Yeah.
[ Blumenfeld ] They can do something like that. Because I know that Murray Roth thought for years was predicting run away inflation and never happened, because...
[ Scott ] Well, this... this...
[ Blumenfeld ] ...man has managed to control it...
[ Scott ] Since 68.
[ Blumenfeld ] Yes.
[ Scott ] It has lost 70 percent of its value.
[ Blumenfeld ] That is true.
[ Scott ] What do you call that?
[ Blumenfeld ] It has been a slow... it is...
[ Scott ] What do you call it but... but... but ...
[ Blumenfeld ] Yeah.
[ Scott ] ...but run away inflation?
[ Blumenfeld ] Yeah. I suppose. I suppose.
[ Scott ] I mean, you money is fading now at … in the bank.
[ Blumenfeld ] That is right.
[ Scott ] My poor mother left 80,000 dollars. She put 80,000 dollars in to war bonds at two and a half or three percent, I think it was, in 1942, nice patriotic thing. And it was still there when she died in 83. And she never mentioned it. 80,000 dollars. She never thought... she never realized that the government would steal it.
[ Blumenfeld ] Yes. No one expects that of our government. People still... do you think they have confidence in our government now or are they just holding their breath?
[ Scott ] Well, they don’t know that the government is... is a thief.
[ Blumenfeld ] I don’t know. People are...
[multiple voices]
[ Blumenfeld ] I think people know that the government wastes money.
[ Rushdoony ] Yes.
[ Scott ] Well, they think it is waste.
[ Blumenfeld ] Yeah.
[ Scott ] But they don’t realize that it is robbery.
[ Blumenfeld ] Well, we know that.
[ Scott ] If... if ....
[ Blumenfeld ] Social security is robbery.
[ Scott ] You know, if you work and you earn...’
[ Blumenfeld ] Yeah.
[ Scott ] ... 80,000 dollars and put it in the bank and then when you go back to get it, it is only worth 20,000, somebody has stolen 60,000 from you.
[ Blumenfeld ] Oh sure.
[ Rushdoony ] And...
[ Blumenfeld ] How much money is there...
[ Rushdoony ] ... your mother put it in the bank 2000 here in California or the West was good money...
[ Scott ] In 42.
[ Rushdoony ] Yes.
[ Scott ] Yes.
[ Rushdoony ] For a year’s salary.
[ Scott ] Sure.
[ Blumenfeld ] Yes.
[ Scott ] Yes, it was a year’s salary.
[ Blumenfeld ] Oh, that was good money.
[ Scott ] And at a nice job.
[ Blumenfeld ] ...in those days.
[ Scott ] Yes.
[ Blumenfeld ] In those days...
[ Scott ] A decent job.
[ Blumenfeld ] But how much money is in the social security trust fund?
[ Rushdoony ] None. The... it is a lot of I O U.
[ Scott ] It comes in, whatever they collect this year...
[ Blumenfeld ] Yes. Now could a private firm get away with that?
[ Scott ] No. But a private firm couldn’t license you either.
[ Blumenfeld ] Yes. But how can the government actually take all of this money and just spend it? And tell us that we have got a social security system there? There is nothing there, is there?
[ Scott ] Well, my self employment tax wipes out my social security account entirely.
[ Blumenfeld ] Oh, oh...
[ Scott ] So at the age of 75, I am still paying social security.
[ Blumenfeld ] Oh, yeah, you have to pay it, right.
[ Scott ] And I...
[ Blumenfeld ] Yes.
[ Scott ] If you are working you have to have to pay it.
[ Blumenfeld ] Yeah, right.
[ Rushdoony ] Well....
[ Blumenfeld ] So it is really just a tax. That is all it is.
[ Scott ] That is all it is.
[ Blumenfeld ] And...
[ Rushdoony ] Not to worry, as one prominent conservative said in Washington recently. The government is immortal so...
[ Scott ] I am ... I am sorry he said that because it is true. The devil is always with us.
[ Blumenfeld ] Well, government may be immortal, but...
[ Scott ] We...
[ Blumenfeld ] ...politicians aren’t.
[ Scott ] We can change the devils.
[ Blumenfeld ] Yes.
[ Rushdoony ] Yes.
[ Blumenfeld ] Politicians are not immortal.
[ Rushdoony ] Well, our time is about over. Thank you, Sam. It is always a pleasure to have you with us. And what you are doing here and abroad is a giant step towards freedom. Our new Chalcedon Report has an article by David Hall on home schooling in Britain and ...
[ Blumenfeld ] Very good.
[ Rushdoony ] ... your influence here and aboard has been considerable.
Well, thank you all for listening and God bless you.
[ Voice ] Authorized by the Chalcedon Foundation. Archived by the Mount Olive Tape Library. Digitized by ChristRules.com.