From the Easy Chair

North Africa Today

Professor: Dr. R.J. Rushdoony

Subject: Conversations, Panels and Sermons

Lesson: 9-214

Genre: Speech

Track:

Dictation Name: RR161AD55

Year: 1980s and 1990s

Dr. R. J. Rushdoony, RR161AD55, North Africa Today from the Easy Chair, excellent colloquies on various subjects.

[Rushdoony] This is R. J. Rushdoony, Easy Chair number 159, December 9, 1987.

This evening Otto Scott and I are doing to discuss the subject of Africa. Africa is very important on the world scene at present, because we are seeing a number of things coming to focus in Africa that are revelatory of modern man’s insanity, because that is the only word to describe it.

First of all, the term black Africa. We assume that Africa belongs to the black race and that, in itself, is an illusion. No more than we can say that North, Central and South America belong to the Indians or that Europe belongs to the Celts who originally inhabited it can we say that Africa belongs to the blacks.

First of all, the area that makes up southern Africa was not in the hands of blacks. It was originally inhabited by a few tribes of Hottentots who have disappeared and bushmen and bushmen are not blacks. Then the pygmies in the forests of Africa are not properly of the same racial heritage as are the blacks. Again, in the northern part of Africa you have a variety of peoples. The many Berber tribes and peoples are descendants of Gothic of Germanic peoples. The Copts or the ancient Egyptians—and they are not black—the Arabs, of course, invaders of some centuries ago are throughout much of Africa. The Ethiopians are made up of three peoples: Arabs, blacks and the ruling class for centuries going back to pre Christian times, the Amharic peoples.

So to speak of Africa as black is a misnomer. It has not been the black continent. It has, like every other continent had its mixtures of people. In fact, if we are concerned about outsiders such as the white South Africans being there, why aren’t we concerned about the Arabs who rule Egypt? The ancient Egyptians or Copts are really a minority people in... not minority in the numerically necessarily, but a minority in the sense that they are oppressed. They are deprived of their rights. Perhaps their problem is that they are a Christian people and, hence, in the modern perspective have forfeited rights because of their Christianity.

In other words, when we look at Africa we cannot equate it with the black man. Now this does not mean that injustice should be done to him, but it does mean we cannot see Africa as the exclusive continent of the black peoples. To do so is to fly in the face of reality and it is to do a great injustice to a great many people, some of whom are exploited. They are persecuted. They are deprived of their rights. And yet no one is ready to speak for them.

Well, with those few general comments, we will open up the matter. Otto, do you want to make some comments now?

[Scott] Well, of course, what we are talking about really is modern Racism.

[Rushdoony] Yes.

[Scott] The argument that black... Africa belongs to the black race is an argument that isn’t mounted Europe. Nobody says Europe belongs to the white race and therefore no other persons should live or have prominence or influence in Europe, we are saying about the black people what we refuse to say about any other race. And this is pretty strange.

When I debated the issue of white government of South Africa with members of the urban league here in the United States I brought up the massacres of black people by black governments and said, “Isn’t that important?” And they said, “No.” What is important is that no white government should rule over black people.

[Rushdoony] Yes. That is a very important point. If we want to have the kind of one world these people talk about, why not open up Africa and Asia to the blacks, to the whites, to all peoples and say, “All have equal rights here”? If they are to have equal rights in the United States and Great Britain and France and Germany, why not in Asia and Africa?

[Scott] Why not? Why don’t they offer it to the other races what they demand from other races?

[Rushdoony] This is exactly the kind of problem we have in the world today and very few people are ready to talk honestly about. It is assumed, as you have so often pointed out, Otto, that Racism is the exclusive vice of the white peoples when in reality the Christian whites of the world have had the least amount of race prejudice of any group in history.

[Scott] Well, it was the white race which got rid of slavery. It was the white race, by accident or by the will of God, which introduced Christianity. It was the white race which expanded civilization around the world and extended the life spans of all the other races.

I read a book some years ago by Teddy White when he was alive, in which he brought up the fact that all histories that we read are written from a western perspective. And he held that up as an instance of discrimination, of egocentricity, so to speak. And when I read it, I thought, well, what ever stopped the Hindus from writing the history of the world? What ever stopped the China men, the Chinese from writing histories of other races and other peoples? I will tell you what. They weren’t interested.

Recently somebody unearthed some writings from the Mohammedans of the 15th and 14th centuries and they discovered that these men, writers and scholars of the Mohammedan world in those periods, had absolutely no interest whatever in Europe. They sent a few traders and a few explorers there to look and came back and said, “Well, the Europeans have very strange habits,” and they dropped the matter all together. They weren’t interested.

So, of course the histories are from the European perspective. Nobody else was interested in the world as a unit. Right now nobody is talking about eliminating discrimination excepting Christians. Nobody... the Chinese and the Japanese are not talking about getting rid of discrimination. The black people of Africa are talking about getting rid of discrimination against themselves, but not against one another, because the tribes, of course, practice Apartheid. No tribe will allow a person from another tribe to move into its territory. No tribal counsel will elect an official from another tribe. What are we talking about? We are talking about the Christian continuing effort to improve civilization on a global level using Christian thinking and values.

[Rushdoony] Yes. So we have to say that the Christians alone have fought against this kind of narrow minded racist outlook. No one else.

[Scott] Didn’t you tell me once that the word for slave in Islam is black?

[Rushdoony] Yes. It was illegal in Islam to hold anyone as a slave except a black. This makes it all the more ironic that your black Muslims act as though Islam had been their friend when it was Islamic traders who sold the slaves to Europeans. They had begun the trade earlier. They continued it long after Europe abandoned it. And only in recent years did Saudi Arabia—within the past decade or so—abolish slavery.

[Scott] So they say.

[Rushdoony] So they say. And we have no reason to believe that every Arab state has abolished it. So we have a very, very one sided account, well, one sided would not be honest. It is a very biased and falsified account of the history of Racism.

[Scott] Now when Christianity was in full {?} race did not count.

[Rushdoony] Yes.

[Scott] Othello’s race was not considered important to Shakespeare, nor to his audience.

[Rushdoony] That is right.

[Scott] It was Iago’s envy of Othello , of Othello’s superior qualities as a Christian and as a man.

[Rushdoony] Yes.

[Scott] And his color was not counted at all. It is only a modern audience that look at Othello’s color. And I remember when Paul Robson played Othello on Broadway and it was a sensation. Would he kiss Desdemona on the stage or not? That was the big issue.

[Rushdoony] Well, the idea of racial prejudice is a modern thing. Now this is true of every group including the Jews. There was religious prejudice against Jews prior to the 19th century, but never any racial prejudice.

[Scott] Well, you remember that Shylock was reconciled by conversion.

[Rushdoony] Yes. Yes. And the number of conversions of Jews over the centuries was very, very considerable, something very few people know.

Incidentally, Jews for Jesus say that the greatest number of conversions since the first century has taken place since 1970.

[Scott] They should know.

[Rushdoony] Yes. It is an increasing movement.

[Scott] That is an understatement.

[Rushdoony] ...of Jews in America into the Church so that they regard it as a phenomenal factor. But to get back to this issue, Europe now is facing major problems. Ours are minor compared to those of Europe. And it is because they are unwilling to face up to the fact that there are problems with these people that some of them beaus they have a non Christian background are going to be very unpleasant people to deal with. To cite one, for example, the Turks are a major problem throughout western Europe where they have migrated as unskilled labor since World War II. Today they are a detested throughout continental Europe. They don’t know what to do with them, how to get rid of them. They are clannish. They stay all by themselves. They are a source of considerable crime, especially the younger generation and they are helpless in the face of this for the reason that Europe today has no vital Christianity.

So the one way of solving the problem of converting these people, they are no longer able to exercise.

[Scott] Well, of course, there is a revival underway in black Africa.

[Rushdoony] Yes.

[Scott] There is no revival underway in Turkey so far as I know.

[Rushdoony] No.

[Scott] Excepting an Islamic revival.

[Rushdoony] Yes.

[Scott] There is an Islamic revival, I understand, underway in Turkey.

Now Christianity enables the black tribesman or any other clansman or nationality or whatever you want to call it, no matter what your origin or ethnic background or race, Christianity enables you to transcend the limits of your culture and to look at men of other cultures as brothers under God. It is the only thing that has broken the tribal limitations of black Africa have been Christian conversions.

[Rushdoony] Yes.

[Scott] But what you are up against now in Europe and in Africa is a collision, again, between Mohammedism and Christianity.

Now that is ... that is ... that is a very old struggle. When we were in the castle at Edinburgh, you were talking about the battle of Lepanto which stopped the Turkish tide in the Mediterranean.

[Rushdoony] Yes.

[Scott] And that was in the time of Philip II.

[Rushdoony] Yes.

[Scott] So that was in the 1500s. This is the 1900s, the end of the 1900s and the whole thing has been heated up again. In the midst of what we have been told by the specialists is a secular century, the age of ideology, religious conflict is rising right up in the midst of all these cultures.

[Rushdoony] Yes and the Christians had better wake up.

[Scott] They don’t know it yet.

[Rushdoony] No. In England where John Wesley was born and did most of his work and where Methodism was born, today the Islamic community far outnumbers the Methodists. And before long will outnumber most if not all groups, unless the Christians wake up.

[Scott] Well, Mohammedanism is the second religion in France and far more fervent and has far more faithful adherents than the Christians do.

Now one of the things that comes into this is interesting. It is a sort of an argument which floats through the Christian community that Christianity achieved its position in the world originally by persuasion and surrender, that as good Christians we are not supposed to notice that these people have a different religion than ours. We are supposed to embrace people who consider God almighty to be something unspeakable and who say so. We are supposed to claim brotherhood with those who detest everything about us.

Now this, of course, is not going to work.

[Rushdoony] No. It is like the comment I heard someone make. God wants people to be nice. Well, ....

[Scott] Well, the grave yard is filled with quiet, peaceful people. But if Christianity was nice o begin with, it would never have survived its enemies. I don’t see anything inconsistent with being decent and being able to protect and defend yourself. A man who will not defend his faith, has no faith.

[Rushdoony] Yes. And Christians today feel that facing up to the realities of our world is too much for them. They are going to retreat into their churches and into their Pietism and wait for the rapture and the result is they are in retreat.

[Scott] Well, do you remember that speech I wrote years ago, the silent majority?

[Rushdoony] Yes.

[Scott] In which I said in these various countries the majority was silent and they kept saying somebody will come along and stop all this. Well, the people who came along were the people who had created the disturbance and now they are silent involuntarily. They are silent because they are not allowed to speak.

[Rushdoony] Yes.

[Scott] Now the Christians are... are in one way expanding Christianity through conversions, through missionary work and so forth, but the force behind Christianity has been dissipated. It no longer has the sanction of the Christian governments. At one time they had Christian governments. The only Christian government I can think of now, actually, is the government of South Africa. That is a Christian government. They have clergymen in the government. They go to extraordinary efforts to help the black people in South Africa. None of these efforts have been credited. None of them have been talked about or given any honor, but nevertheless I have been there. I have seen it and it is true.

But the United States government is not a Christian government. England is not a Christian government even though it has an established church. France is not Christian, nor Spain nor any country that I can think of.

Well, without power behind the missionary effort, it has become something that these various groups simply take advantage of. Every so often they kill the missionaries and nothing happens. Nobody takes umbrage.

[Scott] No. In ... I recall that when we had the problems in the Belgian Congo. Do you recall that?

[Rushdoony] Yes.

[Scott] The blacks massacred, first raped and then massacred a number of Belgian nuns. And one of the American newspapers in the east that I read said this was probably a justifiable revenge for past injustices.

[Rushdoony] Well, we are seeing a massive evasion of reality today on all sides. We are unwilling to face up to evil. Dzerjinskii of the Soviet Union once said, and I quote, “In this revolution we will have to awaken the devil in the people, to stir up the basest passions,” unquote.

This they are doing all over the world. They are creating massive hatred and we are ignoring all of this, because we cannot acknowledge that evil is evil and it is because we have departed from the good. When men are clear cut in their faith in God then they know evil and they are ready to stand up to it.

[Scott] Well, I recall that James Agee in his letters to Father Fly some years back, 20 odd years ago, said in one of this letters as I... that... he had a conversion. And after his conversion which was rather customary he began to see all kinds of things wrong with other people that he hadn't noticed before. And the priest, this elderly man of whom he was in correspondence wrote back when he raised the question and said, “As you grow in spiritual strength, the signs of spiritual sickness become more evident to you.”

[Rushdoony] Yes.

[Scott] Now you cannot recognize the devil when you are in the same dance hall with him, but if you convert, then the devil becomes real.

[Rushdoony] Yes.

[Scott] Otherwise he doesn't exist. And somebody said something along these lines. He said, “Also it is... it is almost like the fashion. We are unaware of the fashion of our times because we take them for granted. They are like the air. But if you look at the photographs of people, say, in 1870, they all look alike to us. They have the same expression on their face. Or the people in the 1550s all look like.”

[Rushdoony] Yes.

[Scott] Well, we will all look alike to our descendants because we share certain outlooks and certain attitudes and therefore we will have certain expressions on our face.

[Rushdoony] Yes.

[Scott] Now we are Christians that have been, you might say, emasculated. The Christian community is no longer virile when it cannot confront its enemies.

[Rushdoony] Yes. One of the greatest thrusts of the modern church is ecumenicity. And it is a drive to bring Christians or churches would be the better term, together for the sake of unity, as though numbers thereby will give them a world strength. And yet when you look at the early church, their concern was not union for the sake of unity, but it was the truth.

[Scott] Yes.

[Rushdoony] And they were ready to fight each other.

[Scott] Anytime.

[Rushdoony] Anytime. They were ready to stand up and say, “You are a heretic. You do not belong in the Church of Jesus Christ.”

That is why they were strong, because they were like a Gideon’s band.

[Scott] Well, they actually exterminated certain heretical groups. There was the Apollos who felt that the flesh was evil and the Church fathers said, “Well, if we let these fellows get away with that, they will destroy the human race.” And there was no way to argue with Apollos so they killed him.

[Rushdoony] Yes. That was in the early medieval period. They were also known as the Bogomiles, the Manicheans, the Albigensians and so on. And for them all flesh was bad. So there was no difference as far as they were concerned between marital sex, homosexuality, incest or anything else. And they were destroying the south of France with their heresies and creating a fearful and a monstrous evil. And so the Catholic Church proclaimed a crusade against them. And it saved France, however ugly a step it was.

[Scott] Well....

[Rushdoony] But ...

[Scott] Well, the same people who will say that the greatest good for the greatest number are against taking any action of this sort.

[Rushdoony] Yes. And no one will write about the fact that these Albigensians were also militarily organized. They were making a move against other communities. They were extending their power by taking over one area after another with the sword.

Now very little is said about that, but there are a number of hints in the old records that indicate that that was the case.

[Scott] Well...

[Rushdoony] Only the orthodox Christians, ostensibly, pick up the sword. All others are victims.

[Scott] Well, yes. I think it is interesting. The Calvinists defend the faith and the Calvinists, as far as I know, never committed any series of burning people alive, conducted no purges, had no massacres, but were themselves massacred by other groups. And yet the Calvinists wind up with the bad press.

[Rushdoony] Yes.

[Scott] Well, the victors write the history.

But we go back to Africa. Now the Africans are very religious as all peoples are.

[Rushdoony] Yes.

[Scott] And the black Africans, I understand, began to lose respect for the Europeans in World War I, beaus they said if the Europeans, if the white race is killing one another and they do not believe what they preach about brotherly love. So therefore they began to believe that Europeans were not... were hypocrites, didn’t have a true religion.

Right now, of course, there is a big revival underway and it is syncretistic. I talked to a missionary from South Africa who spent a number of years in some of the black countries and he said the services vary. He said, “In some places they dance before the altar and other places they do other things.” But they do break down the tribal barriers. And one of the thins that Mugavi and the others have done in Zimbabwe is to murder those who converted Christianity.

[Rushdoony] Yes. There is a great deal of syncretistic religion in Africa. That is, a mingling of pagan religions with Christianity. And a great many people decry this and say it shows how weak and insubstantial Christianity is in Africa. However, what we must recognize is that while there are a vast number of people who are in this type of syncretistic Christian cults, the fact is these take place precisely because all the power is with Christianity. The native religious recognize that so they try to merge their faith with Christianity in order to borrow its strength.

Now this is what was done in the early Church.

[Scott] Well, it is...

[Rushdoony] The Gnostics, every kind of cult moved in, claimed to be Christian, created pseudo Christian groups. In time they fell away, because the vitality was in Christianity, not in these pagan practices.

[Scott] Well, Europe developed that way. Russia never really got out of it.

[Rushdoony] Yes. Yes. So we have to recognize that there is a great deal of vitality in Africa and the only resistance there that is important to the forces of Marxism and to the forces of paganism is in the Christian community and it is growing although it is being persecuted as never before.

Well, black Africa has some major problems, but so does the rest of Africa and we must not forget the Copts who are Christians and are persecuted in Egypt.

[Scott] Well, look at the problem of the Ethiopian Christians.

[Rushdoony] Yes.

[Scott] Under {?}.

[Rushdoony] Yes.

[Scott] He is killing them off.

[Rushdoony] Yes. They are Amharic peoples.

[Scott] Yes.

[Rushdoony] They are not blacks, therefore they don’t count.

Well, I think what we need to recognize is that if we cannot take a healthy stance with regard to Africa, we will not be able to take it with regard to any other part of the world including our own country. If we are not ready to face up to the fact that to see Africa only in terms of black rights and black power is to embrace Racism.

[Scott] And also to ignore the geopolitical importance of that continent.

[Rushdoony] Exactly.

I think, Otto, we ought to go into the geopolitical importance of Africa.

[Scott] Very definitely, because it is tied into the industrial revolution which really lifted Africa’s importance up immeasurably. Before that, traders went down and they got ivory, they got slaves. They got various and sundry other things. But it wasn’t crucial. What happened with the discovery of oil, the application of oil by the turn of the century, the turn of this century, when England began to switch its navy to oil and we had to do the same, et cetera, was that the Persian Gulf which is, after all, a part of Africa, Middle East. This is a sort of a grey area in most people’s minds. They don't think of North Africa as part of the continent, but it is. It made the Persian Gulf immeasurably important and it also began to make the minerals of central and southern Africa very important. All the military thinkers of the west and everywhere else then realized that the continuation of industrial Europe depended upon the raw materials from continental Africa. The power that conquered Africa could conquer Europe which was then considered the lever which controlled the world.

Now they... they English had a slogan from Cape Town to Cairo. They pushed the French out of Egypt and they let them have Algeria because there wasn’t anything in Algeria. And they took over Transjordan as a result of World War I. They took over the Persian Gulf, pretty much. They already had the Cape of Good Hope. They were going to build a belt all the way up from north to south and then they lost the will, because they lost the flower of their leadership in the war. And the second generation came along and was not inclined to continue the empire.

Who inherited the empire? Who inherited the territory that took England, France, Holland, Belgium, Spain, Italy 400 years to accomplish? The Soviet Union.

[Rushdoony] Yes.

[Scott] With our help.

[Rushdoony] Yes.

[Scott] With our money. With our equipment. While we argued against Racism and said the white people should get out of all of theses places, we didn't seem to count the Russians as white at all.

[Rushdoony] Or the {?}

[Scott] They could move right in.

[Rushdoony] Moving in also.

[Scott] They could move right in and we never said a word.

[Rushdoony] Yes

[Scott] It wasn’t racist to have white Cuban troops in black Africa. That doesn’t seem to bother anybody. But Russia has as much in Africa as the English and the French together and the Belgians.

[Rushdoony] Yes.

[Scott] And is right on the verge of having the whole game.

[Rushdoony] Yes and all kinds of strategic minerals which will wipe out our ability to wage war, are derived, as you have pointed out in your book The Other End of the Lifeboat...

[Scott] Or... or even to maintain an industry.

[Rushdoony] Yes. They are derived from Africa, South Africa especially.

[Scott] Southern Africa.

[Rushdoony] Well, here is a statement from a black woman in Angola. This is one of thousands of statements like this. I quote, “The Cuban soldiers came and locked people into huts and burned them alive. Others, their arms and legs were cut off. They ripped away my baby out of my arms and slinging her by the legs smashed her head against a tree. I was pushed into a lorry with other women. Later I was raped by 10 Cubans. Those who resisted were stabbed by bayonets,” unquote.

Over 50,000 young Angolan children have been taken recently from their parents forcibly and they have been sent to Cuba. The Cubans chose seven year olds and the purpose of doing it is to train them to be Marxist, Leninist mercenaries. This is exactly the policy the old Turkish Empire practiced, by taking four year old Christian youngsters and training them to be their troops, their {?}.

[Scott] We the Soviets have been doing this for a long time.

[Rushdoony] Yes.

[Scott] They took tens of thousands of children from Greece at the end of World War II and raised them in the Soviet Union. They have taken children from all the satellite countries of Eastern Europe to raise in the Soviet Union.

[Rushdoony] And from Southeast Asia.

[Scott] And from Southeast Asia and from everywhere, because they are planning on the world wide empire.

[Rushdoony] Yes. Eighteen thousand have been taken from Mozambique to East Germany. But the press says nothing about this.

[Scott] Well, we recall the histories of Carthage, scanty as they are, and I happened to think of them when I watched the summit gathering. The ambassadors from Carthage went to Rome and they negotiated away all the arms of Carthage in order to prove that Carthage was really for peace. And then the Romans demanded the children of the Carthaginian leaders and they piled them into the ships and sent them off to Rome and some f their mothers swam out into the ocean as the ships retreated. They swam as far as they could to get the last glimpse of them as they disappeared.

After they had the children, after they had the arms scrapped, the Romans declared war and then they allowed the ambassadors who had sold their armaments and everything else away to go back to Carthage. When they got back to Carthage the people stoned them to death. And then the melted down everything they had and put up this heroic resistance. But it was, of course, too late. It was a Masada situation. All they could do would be to die heroically.

There are many steps on the road to surrender and we as a nation have taken a great many of them and I stand here amazed at the Christians who claim to be concerned about the black people and their rights in Africa who are not concerned about the ones who are massacred or killed.

[Rushdoony] Yes.

[Scott] They are only concerned about the ones that are living in an area that the white people govern and have made the most prosperous in the continent.

[Rushdoony] Yes. And even as we surrender Africa to the Soviets, we are surrendering the United States to the Soviets. And Ronald Reagan will be remembered as the worst president in American history, as the man who sold America.

[Scott] For what? For a good role on the stage for a brief moment.

[Rushdoony] Yes.

[Scott] That is really conceit over pride.

[Rushdoony] And perhaps the Nobel Peace Prize.

[Scott] Well, that is a prize which has long since lost its value if indeed it every had any.

[Rushdoony] Yes.

[Scott] Well, General Logowski of the Soviet Union is their great theoretician and he was the one who pointed out to them that control of strategic minerals would enable them to rule the world without a battle. Now this goes all the way back to Sun Tzu, the great Chinese strategist.

[Rushdoony] Yes.

[Scott] Who said the best general is he who wins without a fight. And South Africa is probably our last big domino. I have written about this and it has been a great disappointment to me, that whole book, is that I have gone around lecturing about it and everything else and when I get on the air or on television or I start to talk to some liberals about the subject, the only subject they want to talk about is racial, racial issues.

[Rushdoony] Yes.

[Scott] They are absolutely totally obsessed. They don’t want to talk about the survival of the United States. They don't want to talk about any other country. They don’t want to compare South Africa to Uganda or any other place. They say that is getting off the mark. You are changing the subject.

[Rushdoony] About a year ago I reviewed on one of the Easy Chairs a book by Patrick Marnham, Fantastic Invasion: Notes on Contemporary Africa. And I am just going to refer to it again very briefly, because it is a very important book. The point that Marnham made in this book is that the real invasion of Africa has taken place since Colonialism ended. People have a wrong idea of Colonialism. For example, at the height of British power in India there were, as Stoper pointed out some years ago, 6000 British agents in India. They ruled a subcontinent with only 6000 people. They did it because basically it was a good government and the peoples of India had peace. Famines were ended. A racial hostility was ended. And therefore the people were happy with what they were getting.

Now the same was true in Africa. There were not vast groups or armies or anything holding down Africa prior to the end of Colonialism, just a handful of peoples. Now as Marnham points out, there is a fantastic invasion. Apart from those of the Chinese and the Soviet block, it is the invasion of U N experts, scientists, people who are going to tell the country—and they control the purse strings—how they are to rule, how they are to function. And the result is under Colonialism, some of those countries were exporting food.

[Scott] They almost all were.

[Rushdoony] Now they are starving.

[Scott] Yes.

[Rushdoony] They depend on foreign food, because the foreign experts control the country, because foreign aid is what keeps these countries going.

[Scott] Well, don’t forget that the foreign aid—and we are party to this.

[Rushdoony] Yes.

[Scott] We ... the United States, that is, the government of the United States created the U N almost insisted,... Roosevelt’s only insistence, the only think the United States was to get out of the war was to see the U N created and the Soviet Union joined finally in the creation of the U N because they could see obvious advantages. And we set up a point four program, Truman called it, to take care of the hungry people of the world. There weren’t that many hungry then as there are now, by the way.

[Rushdoony] Yes.

[Scott] Things are much worse now than they were in 1948. But at any rate, we decided to set up the foreign aid program which, by the way, exactly equals our deficit, because it wasn’t domestic welfare which put us in the red. It was international welfare. But we didn’t give the money to the entrepreneurs in these countries. We didn’t send anyone in to talk to those who were already in business and who wanted to expand their factory. We didn't talk to the middle levels. We didn’t talk to even the professionals. We talked to the elite groups that had been educated in western colleges and universities who all spouted Socialist nonsense and we gave them hundreds of millions of dollars and they immediately proceeded then to put their group in charge of everything to take away the liberty of the businessmen and the commercial enterprises and the private sector and their own country and to set up socialist dictatorships.

[Rushdoony] Yes.

[Scott] And Marxist dictatorships which then created economic havoc. And shortly after the economic havoc, of course, there was the physical havoc of physical force, because while we were giving the money, the other guy was giving them guns.

[Rushdoony] Yes. And we created evils there that have been, to a great extent, set back or wiped out by the colonial powers. In the testimony for the trial of {?} the former emperor, his chef has been testifying to the fact that he was required to prepare human beings for the table of {?}.

Now none of these things were unknown to western powers. They went along with whatever was being done as long as they were able to pull the strings behind these tyrants.

[Scott] Well you bring up something here. The colonial powers really had their best time. Of course, they expanded during the 19th century. By the 20th century they had pretty well gone to their limits. They still had a Christian base to their authority.

[Rushdoony] Yes.

[Scott] Now authority without a spiritual value. You brought it up today when you reminded me of ... or told me that you had read Alexander’s Herzon’s memoirs and he had pointed out that the land owner was no longer had a good relationship with the serf because the serf had become aware that the landowner was only doing things for his own benefit.

Now the essence of authority is that it can only be exercised properly for the common good. When it ceases to be exercised for the common good, it becomes tyranny.

[Rushdoony] Yes.

[Scott] The individual who receives the order perceives the hollowness of the individual giving the order and loses respect for him and the whole system begins to erode.

Now this is what has happened to the European civilization in Africa. They have lost respect.

[Rushdoony] Yes.

[Scott] And the worst possible elements of western civilization that we wanted counted, my guess we will have to count Russia as part of it, have been giving orders in Africa. E have sent social scientists who, as we know, have no hearts. They have no heart, no soul. These people play games with human beings in the name of their damn, stupid professions. And the Africans are behaving barbarically because we have sent educated barbarians to Africa.

[Rushdoony] Yes. Meanwhile Africa with its own leadership, plus the humanistic experts who were there with our money to help them create a new paradise on earth in the course of which they are destroying the very earth. The Sahara is receding further and further south. These experts don’t know the land. They are advising all kinds of practices which are destructive.

But now we have to add to that another factor, AIDS.

[Scott] Oh, that. I remember that television program we saw in London.

[Rushdoony] Yes.

[Scott] It was a French program. It was truncated, by the way.

[Rushdoony] Oh.

[Scott] We learned later. Yes and they... it was really longer and they had distilled the high spots for us.

The most horrifying thing was that they have just now admitting that AIDS is widespread in central Africa and they don’t ... they have nothing to do. They can’t do anything about it.

[Rushdoony] Yes. In that film we saw in London it was pointed out that if what used to be the Congo, a native doctor felt that 70 percent of the people would die. In another part of central Africa the black doctor estimated 30 percent. They said that the educational efforts were futile, because the people could not believe that a germ or a virus or anything invisible could cause it.

[Scott] And it was all done by a curse.

[Rushdoony] Yes. Somebody had cast an evil spell.

[Scott] So the thing was to find out who was responsible and kill him.

[Rushdoony] Yes.

[Scott] That would stop the plague.

Well, now, because we had forget to tell the world about the advances of medicine and the benefits of Colonialism, those benefits and advances were no longer respected by the black people’s of Africa so that when they got control of their own areas again, they actually drove out doctors and nurses and missionaries and educators.

[Rushdoony] Yes.

[Sandlin] And when they didn’t drive them out they stopped their funds and wouldn’t buy them any equipment or anything else, because even they had forgotten where this long life span came from and how it was maintained. This is almost like the young hippies that we have got. They think that all these things that they see around them are come from heaven. I think it was you who told me about this girl who said to you, “Food is.”

[Rushdoony] Yes, she told a reporter that who asked her how they were going to live in the world that the hippies imagined should be brought about. What would they do for food? And her lordly answer was, “Food is.”

[Scott] Food is.

[Rushdoony] Like hair.

[Scott] Well, that was the way they began to feel in Africa. It was all natural as air and didn’t require any particular direction. Before the AIDS thing, when I was in South Africa, the physicians there were fighting disease war on the border. People were coming across the border illegally with cholera, with advanced syphilis, with every kind of disease you can think of because there was no treatment in the countries from which they were fleeing. And the big effort of the South African medicals was they were even trying to train people to work with the witch doctors to teach the witch doctors modern medicine.

[Rushdoony] Yes.

[Scott] They were trying every possible thing, because they said, “Who can stop the spread of disease if we don’t?” And if they didn’t, it would have been far worse. I would be today far worse. If South Africa is brought down, the human cost is incalculable.

[Rushdoony] Yes. Well, you mentioned South Africa. The idea of turning South Africa over to the blacks and creating a black state there and of Africa for the blacks only. It reminds me of something that Eric {?} has written of late. And I would like to quote form this, because this, I think, is very important. I quote, “Here we have to remember the words of Lord Acton, a great Catholic and a great liberal of partly German descent who wrote, ‘Those states are substantially the most perfect which like the British and Austrian Empires include various distinct nationalities without oppressing them. This notion is very much in the same vein as the words and the testament of Saint Stephen, King of Hungary to his son, Saint Imre. “Remember, my son, that a country of only one language and one custom is a feeble and foolish thing.”’

“Such sentiments are totally unacceptable to the leftist mind which dreams of a country with one race, one language, one class, one type of education, one ideology, one party, one income and so forth.

“Imre’s name, my readers should recall was translated into German as Emerick and Emerick was Italianized into Amerigo which is at the root of America,” unquote.

[Scott] How about it. Very nice.

[Rushdoony] Yes. Well, you see, we cannot have health in any continent, Africa for the blacks only, Asia for the Asiatics. We have to say that if we believe that the American system has been a good one and that until these liberals began to import their inverse racism into the picture, it was the most healthy and virile country in the world, that the same thing can happen the world over.

[Scott] Oh, yes. If we had ... if these areas had decent leaders, do you know, central Africa and South Africa was enormously wealthy when there were no white men there.

The blacks of central Africa didn’t even have the wheel for transport. Like the Indians of North America they walked over all kinds of treasures beneath the earth which they were unable to extract. There is more oil, I think, in Mexico than there is in the Persian Gulf. I really believe that. And I have seen mountains in South America with so high a mineral content that not a blade of grass could grow on them, untouched, unexplored. The earth is groaning with riches. And what prevents these riches from being developed? Why could the black people of Africa be hungry today when they have the most fertile continent in the world? Excepting that they are in the hands of stupid tyrants and we are in the ... we are in the position of people who are supporting the tyrants against the people in the name of brotherhood.

[Rushdoony] Yes. And when the war ended, we poured relief money into Africa which destroyed it, because the people left their farms and their villages to move into town, get the handouts and drink beer.

[Scott] Well...

[Rushdoony] And it corrupted their morals. It corrupted and destroyed their economies and they have never recovered.

[Scott] Well, we supported a... a subverted elite. Now we have promoted socialism with our foreign aid.

[Rushdoony] Yes.

[Scott] We didn't promote Capitalism. We have promoted Socialism.

[Rushdoony] Yes.

[Scott] And we did it deliberately. Our state department is staffed by Socialists and not by Capitalists. And we are... we are ... we are building...we are helping to build the world in which we will have no place.

[Rushdoony] Yes.

[Scott] Now because we don’t have a Christian country, we have never done anything to help the missions as our government today is... is saying that no... not even governmental funds can be used in conjunction with church efforts. So our missionaries and our church groups that are working in these various parts of the world are doing it on their own. They don’t have any great power behind them at all.

On the other hand, the Muslims, the Mohammedans, the people who are dying or Khomeini hold us in contempt as a people who have no god.

[Rushdoony] Yes. Khadafy has very rightly said that the West is destroying the entire world, because they have abandoned their Christian faith. And he says law and authority and society collapse when a faith in a supernatural power is absent.

[Scott] Imagine. He is quite right.

[Rushdoony] He is.

[Scott] There is no... no... no record in history of a civilization that has outlasted the loss of its faith.

[Rushdoony] That is right.

[Scott] Not one. And we look at all our historians and none of them can see the point. The people in the state department that never had a single report on Khomeini before he took over the government because they didn’t think he was important.

[Rushdoony] After all, he was a religious figure.

[Scott] That is right.

[Rushdoony] And religious figures are not important.

[Scott] That is exactly right.

[Rushdoony] And they are a part of the dead past. Therefore do not take them seriously.

[Scott] That is right. They could not adjust. Now I look back at that whole situation as one of the strangest. Here we had Jewish reporters in the United States attacking the Shah of Iran when Iran was the biggest supporter of, protector of Israel there was in the world. Israel’s existence depended on the shah.

[Rushdoony] Yes.

[Scott] But these fellows could see no connection.

[Rushdoony] No.

[Scott] What would you call them?

[Rushdoony] They were Humanists. That is all.

[Scott] They were Humanists.

[Rushdoony] Blind Humanists.

[Scott] They would rather be right than be alive.

[Rushdoony] Right in terms of their humanistic canon.

[Scott] That is right. No, we have people who actually have gone to their graves because they would rather seem noble. You keep running into these. I remember reading about Lafayette in France and I... I ... I wound up without respect for Lafayette, because he was always striking the noble pose no matter what the situation was. And the situation sometimes calls for some ignoble actions.

[Rushdoony] Well, his heroic stance in America went to his head.

[Scott] Yes, indeed.

[Rushdoony] From there on he felt that the had to be the hero of liberty in every scene.

[Scott] Maybe seeing Washington turned his head, but Africa. We keep sending people over to Africa who strike noble poses. In the mean time there is terror and disease all around.

[Rushdoony] Yes.

[Scott] When I was there they estimated 30 million deaths by the year 2000 from disease. Now ...

[Rushdoony] That was before AIDS.

[Scott] That was before AIDS.

[Rushdoony] Yes.

[Scott] That was before AIDS was discovered. Now what can we say?

[Rushdoony] Yes. It was... well, as I am ... told you a while back, some friends who because of missionary concerns in central Africa were there reported that they saw no elderly people. T B, tuberculosis affects 80 percent.

[Scott] So the lifespan was going back to what it was before the Europeans came.

[Rushdoony] Exactly.

[Scott] In fact, back to maybe 32 or 33 years.

[Rushdoony] May not be there yet, but it is going to be there as things go on.

[Scott] Yes.

[Rushdoony] So without considering the death toll from AIDS, the death toll from tuberculosis and cholera is considerable.

[Scott] Well cholera... cholera is a disease of the sewer.

[Rushdoony] Yes.

[Scott] It is lack of sanitation.

[Rushdoony] Yes.

[Scott] And how long does it take for diseases to run when there is no medicine? When there is no physicians? And the physicians we saw in that film had no instruments. They had no syringes. They had no drugs. All they could do was to give psychological aid and comfort, a bed in the hospital and soothing words and so forth. And it is a wonder how they were surviving themselves.

[Rushdoony] Yes and about all they had was all kinds of condemns for safe sex.

[Scott] {?} nuts.

[Rushdoony] And the children were using them as toys.

[Scott] Balloons, yes.

[Rushdoony] They...

[Scott] You ... you really...

[Rushdoony] The insanity of it was amazing.

[Scott] There is a word for that. They call it chuckleheads.

[Rushdoony] The world is full of chuckleheads at the top.

Well, our time is just about over. Any final statement you would like to make, Otto?

[Scott] Well, I will repeat myself. The fate of the government of South Africa, however odious it may seem to some is inextricably entwined with our own.

[Rushdoony] Yes.

[Scott] If that country is removed as a mineral asset of the west, we will have no means of staying independent. And that is a terrifying thought especially when the Congress of the United States has enacted two bills, one from the House, one from the Senate to sever all trade between this country and South Africa and that is going to come up right after January.

[Rushdoony] Very good. And I will just add this, that it is Racism to talk about Africa for the blacks, because if what we have here is what Americans of the past have believed, the best hope for man, then why not for Asia and Africa and the whole world.

Well, thank you all for listening and God bless you.

[Voice] Authorized by the Chalcedon Foundation. Archived by the Mount Olive Tape Library. Digitized by ChristRules.com.