Studies in Political Philosophy

Justice and History

Professor: Dr. R.J. Rushdoony

Subject: Political Studies

Lesson: Justice and History

Genre: Speech

Track: 18

Dictation Name: RR124J18

Location/Venue:

Year: 1960’s-1970’s

…That thou hast given us a glorious destiny in Jesus Christ. Teach us always to move in terms of thy word, and in terms of thy power, and to be confident as we face the power of this darkness, knowing our God that thy word is truth, and thy truth shall prevail. Bless us now as we study thy word and grant us Thy peace. In Jesus name, Amen.

Our scripture lesson is Revelation 21:1-8. Justice and History. “And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God. And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away. And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful. And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely. He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son. But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.”

Paul, as he concludes the epistle to the Hebrews, writes in Hebrews 12:22-29, that we are come unto the heavenly Jerusalem, and this is an important point for us all to realize, that when we become Christians, we become citizens of this heavenly Jerusalem, and that by our faith, we not only enter into the citizenship thereof, but we become partakers and participants in its (blood?). The new Jerusalem then is a present and partial reality in history. It is realized in part in time and progressively so, but the fullness of it will come with the new creation, and eternity. This is the goal of history. God’s perfect order. The new creation, and God’s perfect community, the new Jerusalem.

Man always seeks everywhere and in every culture, a perfect order. Man seeks justice. Man craves a perfect order, an order with true righteousness, and every system the world over dream of it, and apart from biblical faith, this dream manifests itself in the modern world in the form of utopianism, dreams of an ideal social order, a perfect world, a world in which all problems are solved, and we do not have to look far now a days to find utopianism all around us. Thus, apart from the Christian hope, this dream of a perfect world, a perfect order, and the triumph of justice, has two very serious defects.

First, apart from biblical faith, man is a sinner, an unregenerate sinner, and man the sinner wants a just world and perfect righteousness without the necessity of repentance and regeneration. He wants everything in the world perfect except himself. Every man wants a perfect wife, but not every m an is ready to be a perfect husband, godly and faithful, and in all things, all that God requires him to be. Similarly, women dream of the perfect husband, but they are not ready to be perfect wives. The attitude of man the sinner is, “Let the world be perfect. Make it easier for me in my sin. Let there be no consequence for my sin but perfection all around to nullify anything that I may do,” and so as man the sinner dreams of a perfect world, of justice realized, he wants it everywhere except in his own heart, and since all men are sinners, it means that all men want everything else to be in conformity to perfect justice, and they an exception.

But, there is a second characteristic of the dream and hope for justice on the part of the natural man, on the part of the unbeliever. Justice can be solved in its perfection and its total realization, either in time or in eternity. You can say, “I believe that there will be perfect justice in time,” or you can say that perfect justice can only come in eternity, and when John gives us this picture of the New Jerusalem, and when Paul tells us that we are citizens of it and are come into it, he nevertheless makes it clear that the fullness of it is only in eternity, and so this must characterize the Christian. He cannot expect perfect justice in this world. In fact, the most he can hope for is partial justice, a measure of justice, because the locale of heaven is not in this world. The fulfillment of justice means heaven and hell, because heaven indeed is the accomplishing of God’s justice, for those who are his saints, for those who accept God’s justice in Jesus Christ, against themselves, and by faith, repent and are regenerated in Jesus Christ, and hell is God’s justice manifested against sinners, and heaven and hell belong to the world to come.

But apart from biblical faith, almost every system, indeed we can say all systems, in some degree, expect perfect justice in time. This means that the source of justice, instead of being God in eternity, becomes something in time, and the inevitable implication of this, of every expectation that justice is to be realized, perfect justice in this world is the state, and the scientific socialist state is precisely that answer of humanistic man to John’s vision of the New Jerusalem. Perfect order realized in time by the scientific socialist state.

Now, perfect justice is going to be realized in time, it means you have taken heaven and hell out of eternity and put them in time, and here we can say that the socialist state has had success with 50% of its goal. It has been able to bring hell on earth, but it has not succeeded where heaven is concerned.

Now, whenever a man denies the word of God, whenever he denies that John’s vision is the truth, that perfect justice, the perfect community is to be achieved in eternity, and perfect justice to evil-doers is to be achieved in eternity, and he demands it in time, he then holds the doctrine of what has been called poetic justice. Now, what is the doctrine of poetic justice? It is the doctrine which holds that virtue is to be rewarded in time and evil is to be rewarded in time. It is the doctrine that was born of the Enlightenment, of modern humanism, of lightness, of Thomas Reimer{?}, and of the other founders of the modern age. According to them, this world is the real world, and therefore, if there is to be the perfect justice that man hungers for, that man believes in, we cannot look for it in John’s vision. We cannot wait for it in terms of a New Jerusalem, which is a myth and a hell which no rational man can believe in. We must look for it in time, and if we are to look for it in time, and as they said, nature is perfect and they were Deists, believers in nature and natural law, then natural law must bring perfect justice in every day. What does this mean?

If you had an accident and lost your life, then you were obviously a bad character, because natural law would have protected you otherwise, and so, you could tell the character of men by their prosperity or their failures. Moreover, when you wrote, if you were a good moral writer, a true humanist, a true child of the Enlightenment, you did not tolerate any triumph on the part of evil. Your villains, of course, were priests and preachers, but you made everything work out perfectly, and so, within a century or less of Shakespeare’s death, they rewrote Shakespeare. I have, in my library, the text, for example, of Shakespeare’s King Lear, as it is rewritten, and of course, King Lear does not go mad, and King Lear does not have his griefs and problems overwhelm him. Everything works out and every evil-doer is punished, and King Lear is triumphant. It had to be that way. It was highly immoral and anti-humanistic on the part of Shakespeare to allow evil even a brief triumph.

Now, the first expectation of the doctrine of poetic justice, because it denied the beliefs that Christians hold to concerning heaven and hell, was that nature is the instrument of poetic justice, that after Darwin, one of their own number, exploded the idea of nature being anything perfect, the scientific socialist state became, in humanistic thinking, the means whereby perfect justice is what’s on earth, and so today, we find history being rewritten in terms of the socialist doctrine of poetic justice, or socialist justice. Every time there’s a change in the political scene in the Soviet Union, the history books and the encyclopedias are rewritten, and the books now say that Trotsky, for example, was a villain from the beginning instead of the fact that he was one of the two great figures of the Bolshevik party.

Similarly, as history has been steadily rewritten and the new textbook, Land of the Free, has a whole new set of heroes, a whole new set of villains for American history. It gives us American history a la the doctrine of socialistic poetic justice. I think perhaps the most amusing example of this kind of business is to be found, of course, in the Soviet Union, where this is carried to a logical conclusion. During the days of Stalin, one communist party member was assigned to collectivize the Eskimos, and this was a difficult task. Everybody had failed before him and been punished by the party because the party does not tolerate failure. This is an impossibility. Socialism cannot fail, so that any party official who fails is ipso facto an anti-socialist, because socialism must succeed. It is virtue. This is the doctrine of poetic justice, and this poor individual as he was assigned to collectivize the Eskimos, who didn’t know what collectivization meant, figured his only chance was to make himself very, very friendly with the chief, which he gradually succeeded in doing. Well, it reached the point where the chief wanted to demonstrate they were indeed friends by giving him his wife to share with this Eskimo custom, which was a very traumatic experience for the poor communist because Eskimo women are notoriously unclean, smelly, and a few other things besides, but for the sake of Stalin, he did it. Then, when his lovely wife arrived, the chief wanted him to reciprocate and he insisted that his wife do so for the sake of his party, and she left and he was kicked out.

Now, in Moscow, play was made of this episode, but how was it rewritten. In the play, to fulfill the doctrine of poetic justice, the wife, of course, offered herself as a sacrifice, and the Eskimo chief said, No, this would be too barbaric a thing, and became a convert on the spot to the glories of Stalinism, of communism. This is socialist poetic justice. Everything has to be right in this world, because this world is their heaven and hell, and they had succeeded in making it a hell wherever they are, but they had not succeeded where heaven is concerned.

But John declares in this vision, that the holy city comes down out of heaven. It is not a city arising from earth and going into heaven, but has come down from heaven, from God, so the perfect justice is a matter of God’s doing and God’s grace, and the kingdom of God comes not as man works his way up to it, but as God by his grace ushers it in, and it comes in part in time and in his fullness in eternity, and it comes as a tabernacle of God is with men, and the tabernacle of God is Jesus Christ. For as John in his Gospel declares, “The only begotten Son of God who is the Father has dwelt amongst us.” The word is tabernacled amongst us,” and repeatedly there is this reference to Jesus Christ as the tabernacle of God, and the tabernacling presence of God, and so the kingdom of God and the perfect justice of God depends not on men’s socialist efforts, but upon God’s work through Jesus Christ, and when we accept Jesus Christ as our Lord and Savior, when God, by his grace makes us his people, God himself shall be with us, and be our God.

“And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away. And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.” Jesus Christ, in his coming, has been making all things new, and when we become Christians, we are added to that community of those who are made new, who are regenerated. We are added to the circle of those who are citizens of the New Jerusalem, who are under the perfect righteousness and justice of God, and have the privilege of seeing in the world to come, in all its fulfillment.

We then face the world, which is at war with this vision. Politics promises today, heaven on earth, the concept of poetic justice, of socialist justice. On the other hand, the word of God offers heaven in heaven, but to those who are God’s people and citizens of his kingdom, grace and blessings now, and his providential care. This promise, for he hath said, “I will never leave thee nor forsake thee,” so that we may boldly say, “The Lord is my helper. I will not fear what man may do unto me.” Let us pray.

Almighty God, our heavenly Father, we give thanks unto thee that thou art God, that thou art the source of perfect justice, and that thou hast prepared heaven and hell, that thy perfect justice and righteousness might be manifested throughout all eternity. Teach us that, day by day, to move not in terms of foolish men who offer us heaven on earth, but in terms of thy holy and infallible word, and in terms of the kingship of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. In his name we pray. Amen.

Any questions now?

[Audience] Rush, did you get a year{?} view of the difference between prophetic revelations, and it’s come to lead me via the Holy Ghost and via an angel. In other words, how would you define an angel versus the Holy Ghost?

[Rushdoony] Very interesting question. In the Bible, there are several ways in which revelations are given to men, and you have cited two of the central means. One, by angels and the other, by the Holy Ghost. Now, in most instances, the ones by angels are to people who are to do things. They are commissioned to go forth. In the case of the prophetic writers, the inspired writers of scripture, it is always by the Holy Ghost, so that it is not just a brief message of a few words or a paragraph, but it is the declaration of God’s word at great lengths. So that, for example, when Isaiah wrote Isaiah, he was inspired by the Holy Ghost and given by the Holy Ghost the revelation of the things to come, but the Holy Ghost used the personalities of Isaiah throughout, so that when Isaiah writes he is recognizably Isaiah, and when Jeremiah writes he is recognizably Jeremiah, and yet, as the New Testament tells us, these men searched their own writings and studied them in order to understand the things which must come to pass, because the Holy Ghost spoke through them, but fully using their personalities.

Now, of necessity, it had to be that way, because it became a part of them. Whereas, if it had been from an angel, it would have been a message to them, but this was to be a message through them, and hence, the distinction. Does that clarify the point, or are there questions that I didn’t fully understand in your phrasing?

[Audience] Well, I’m just trying to, in angelology, I think there’s something like 3500 references to angels in {?} and, is this a kind of a heap{?} of Holy Ghosts centralized into, a centralization?

[Rushdoony] Oh, yes. I understand now what you’re inquiring about. No, angels are created beings. The Holy Ghost is the third person of the trinity; Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. Angels are created beings just as we are, and they have an inferior status to us, so that in the scale of creation, man stands higher than the angels, according to St. Paul, and they are called ministering spirits. So, their purpose is to further the cause of God’s saints in this world. So that they are creatures like unto us and on a slightly lower scale, not in intelligence or anything else, but in terms of God’s providence and purpose, and we do not have them portrayed ever with wings in the scripture. They are portrayed very much as men. They are not ever feminine in the Bible either, and here again, our modern conception of angels is altogether wrong. Our Christmas U.S. stamp had a female angel. There are no female angels referred to in the Bible.

[Audience] Are they one of us now?

[Rushdoony] That we cannot say, except that they are spoken of as ministering spirits, and there are references to guardian angels, but nothing more said, because the purpose of the Bible is not to satisfy our curiosity at any point, nor to take our attentions away from God and to fix it on angels, or heaven, or hell, or anything else. So that we are told only what we need to know on these things and nothing to satisfy our curiosity, and this is one of the things that, of course, marks all these false and apocryphal books, and modern pseudo revelations, because they are written with one purpose, primarily to satisfy curiosity. So they will deal with the so-called hidden years of Jesus, and they will supply you with all kinds of information about Christ, supposedly information, that deals with items of curiosity, or they will tell you a great deal about heaven, or a great deal about hell, whence the Bible deliberately tells us nothing to satisfy our curiosity. Yes?

[Audience] {?} I can declare that Medicare is so blatant, so {?} that it was like a little bit of heaven on earth.

[Rushdoony] Yes.

[Audience] He said it just like that.

[Rushdoony] Very good, and that kind of language is increasingly the language of politics. More than once, President Johnson has talked as though heaven on earth is just around the corner. We are going to abolish poverty, ignorance, disease, all problems and usher all peoples of the earth into the protection of life, and the fullness of life, and so on. These are all Messianic claims, and if you abolish heaven and hell from eternity, you are going to have it on earth. Heaven and hell are inescapable categories of human thought. You can’t escape thinking about them. The only question is where are you going to locate them? Where God does? Or where the socialists do? So, it’s just a question of taking your choice and the person that says, “Well, I don’t believe in hell,” he most certainly does, but it’s the socialist’s hell he believes in. It’s a humanistic hell he believes in, because he can’t escape heaven and hell, and of course, he puts all of us in his hell because we’re mentally sick, and so on and so forth, in that we don’t have his wisdom and don’t share in all the vision of his heaven, and he said he doesn’t believe in heaven, but what is he working for? Is heaven by another name? So that you do not abolish heaven and hell by saying you don’t believe in them. You simply transfer them from eternity to {?}. Yes?

[Audience] I was wondering, we haven’t been introduced yet, {?} on this basic presuppositions. I was wondering how you defend them?

[Rushdoony] Yes. There are certain basic presuppositions which all men have. No man can think without certain basic axioms and presuppositions of his thought. Now, there are two kinds of basic presuppositions. First, there are those presuppositions all men have by virtue of the fact that they are men, created in the image of God, created in terms of God’s image and therefore, inescapably thinking certain of God’s thoughts after him. Then, there are those presuppositions which men adopt because of their faith, their system.

For example, the humanist says to the Christian, “Oh, but you believe so many things. You have so many presuppositions. So much you take on faith,” but the humanist takes a vast world of thought on faith also, and his thinking is premised on a wide variety of presuppositions. First, he asserts the autonomy of his reasons. Second, he asserts the validity of his rationalities. Third, he asserts that the experimental method, or whatever other method he may choose to rest his confidence on, will give him proof, because there is the possibility of valid, verifiable knowledge, and so on. Now, these are matters of faith, because, as the philosophers of science will admit if you press them, that there can be no true knowledge under their premises until they have exhausted knowledge, which is impossible for them. So, they are as thoroughly fundamentalistic as any Bible-believing fundamentalist, but theirs is a fundamentalism of humanism.

Now, how are you going to demonstrate these presuppositions to these people? First, you have to challenge their claim to be objective, rational thinkers, and say, “Your thinking is presuppositionalism to the core because there is no thinking apart from presuppositions, certain axioms of thought, so that you are not what you claim to be. Second, to say “Your presuppositions do not hold water, because before you can assume your presuppositions, you assume an order in the universe which points to God. So that you presuppose a god in order to be able to presuppose your humanism. Your whole thinking, therefore, rests on a ladder on a foundation that you refuse to acknowledge. You say it isn’t there, because if the humanist, the unbeliever, were strictly honest in terms of his professed faith, he would say there is nothing in the universe but brute factuality, meaningless, unrelated facts, and I have no way of tying them together, I have no way of having any knowledge until I can know all things, which is impossible. Therefore, there is no knowledge possible, there is no certainty about anything, therefore, I cannot profess to think validly, because I cannot assert even the validity of human self.

Now, they are used to, of course, working a double standard with us. For example, Darwin. At all points, presuppose a God in order to give him a world that he could say had certain laws in it in order to have evolution, and he even admits this at the end of his Origin of Species when he talks about the great creator who has given us all this, but let him just stay in the background and not come into the picture, but when he was asked questions about the Bible and about faith, and he would say, “Oh, yes, these things seem logical enough in terms of the order you have in the universe.” Now, he’d use that order to posit evolution, but how do I know there is really order, because I’m nothing but another monkey, and I wouldn’t trust the thinking of any other monkey, so why should I trust mine when I’ve come to thinking about the God of the Bible. So, you see, he was nothing but an ape, if his thinking led to God, that he was a great scientist whose thinking was valid science, when he was thinking about evolution.

Now this was so childish that is it amusing, but this is consistently the double standard they work on us. Their thinking is pure presuppositionalism. Cornelius Van Til, whom I believe to be the greatest philosopher of our age, has said that if the modern humanists, the modern unbelievers were honest to themselves, they could not think. They would have no science,, no knowledge, but they borrowed God’s thinking and then disavow it. Any other questions? Yes?

[Audience] I have a question. Lucifer had one-third of the angels out of heaven. Where are those {?} ?

[Rushdoony] Well, we’re not told the number. One-third is given, but it’s not given as a numerical figure. The third part, which means the disinherited portion, to understand that figure, it’s taken from the laws of inheritance. The eldest son received a double portion and all others, a single portion, so that the disinherited portion was always spoken of as the third part. So that the fallen angels represented the third part of the heavenly hosts. Now, the fallen angels, or demons, to use another term, are in hell and at work on earth, very definitely. This is made known to us, and I do believe in the reality of demon possession. It is significant to me that some non-Christian psychiatrists and psychoanalysts are beginning to believe in demon possession but they don’t believe in God, nor anything. They do believe in the reality of demons, and a few have had rather terrifying experiences in this direction, it is reported. It would appear that even Jung himself believed in the reality of demon possession, but he did not believe in God.

Well, while we’re waiting for another question, I think there were a couple items in the news which were of interest. One from the Washington Report of (Allen and Stock?) for Wednesday, June 15, a special White House passport is recommending the creation of a federal data center, which eventually could have a comprehensive file on every man, woman, and child in the country. Now under study in Inner Administration Circles, a still secret report advocates the graduate transfer of all their mental records and statistics to magnetic computer tape which would be turned over to a newly created agency that would function as a general data center. The computerized information would be available at the push of a button to a wide range of governmental authorities, and so on. So, it would be a compiling, it concludes, the cradle-to-grave records on all citizens, so at the push of a button they could get all the data they want on you, and it’s then Big Brother would really be watching you. This is one more steps towards the socialist paradise. Yes?

[Audience] Getting back to the third part again, this is in the Book of Revelation about the third part of the people being killed, and that sort.

[Rushdoony] Yes, wonderful. Very sharp observation. Exactly. I didn’t go into that because I thought I’d treat it at a later date, but you were way ahead of me. When the Book of Revelation repeatedly speaks about the third part being subjected to the plagues, and the wrath, and the judgment of God, what it means is the disinherited parts, the unbelieving part, so that these judgments of God are on the unbelieving world.

There’s another item in the news which I think will be of interest to coin collectors. Of course, we created a wonderful world coin with the Kennedy half in which we showed the world the profile of one of the great heroes of history who brought us one step closer to heaven, but now France has done us one better, and it’s titled “Purrfect Design.” After DeGalle {?} the French Mint may have struck the answer to the issuance of a medal proposed to perpetuate the image of one of her most famous citizens, sex kitten Brigitte Bardot, and so on, so if you want this coin, you can order it from the French {?} it’s a silver coin, for fix and a quarter for silver. Cost includes postage and handling charges. Now, I don’t know who will top them in the race to produce better and better coins, but I think the coins have gotten somewhat ahead of us.

[Audience] {?} coming out now {?}

[Rushdoony] Yes, but of course now, you find on the world stamps increasingly kittens, and puppies, and things like that.

[Audience] {?}

[Rushdoony] Yes, we’ve got a crown. Well, of course, in the late forties, during Truman’s administration, we had, what was it, a Plymouth Rock hen pin on one stamp.

[Audience] But it was National Poultry Week.

[Rushdoony] Yes, National Poultry Week. We got around to observing National Poultry Week long before we got to observing Christmas on the stamp. We still haven’t included Christ in our Christmas observance. Any other questions?

[Audience] {?}

[Rushdoony] Oh, yes?

[Audience] Sort of another discussion thing happened in this Operation Head Start. I heard of a programmer, {?}, and that the ladies, the mothers, were talking about how the nursery school really has changed their children so much, they’re self-assured five-year-olds now, and they know where they’re going, they know their direction, and they know their place is now, {?} really is {?} the state nursery {?}

[Rushdoony] Yes, and of course, the goal is increasing that, because as I pointed out some time ago, one of the most important books recently published by Edith de Rham is The Love Fraud, and the thesis of The Love Fraud is that it’s a fraud to hold children in their tender years need their mother, that within a matter of weeks after birth, they can be place in nursery homes and it can be a meaningful experience in group living, and that this is important to their development. So, we are, of course, well on our way to this sort of thing.

[Audience] I wonder how their children will be if {?}

[Rushdoony] Well, they will be retarded and they will be sore. By the way, educators have now added that two more grades be added to schooling, pre-kindergarten grades. So, you see, this is just a question of time, and the only question in my mind is how much of this they will accomplish before God destroys them. Yes?

[Audience] A few months ago, you reported a school in Virginia, I can’t remember the name.

[Rushdoony] Yes. Fairfax Christian School.

[Audience] There, the children were being taught to read and they said at an early age. Now when do their children start school?

[Rushdoony] In Kindergarten.

[Audience] Normal {?} routine procedure?

[Rushdoony] Yes, of course, very wonderful things in reading are done in a number of Christian schools. In the San Fernando Valley, at the Faith Baptist Elementary School in Canoga Park, I was talking to some parents the other night who had children there, in the kindergarten. They teach reading in Kindergarten. They do so well, that these parents now find, having started their children in the Kindergarten there, they would have to continue them there because they cannot transfer them to any other school. In the Kindergarten, the children have already gone through the first grade readers. A few are through the second grade readers and into the third grade. So, this makes it impossible to transfer them.

[Audience] {?}

[Rushdoony] Yes.

[Audience] What does it mean by Unity of life in {?} church {?}?

[Rushdoony] Unity of life means there is one life in all of us. God’s life, your life, the life of every man under the sun, and animal, too, some are told, is just one life, so that the truth about us is not our individuality. That is, more or less, misological. It is our unity with all life, so the divine life is present in all life everywhere. Therefore, we need to forge tour personality, which is a transient, passing thing, and emphasize our unity with the oneness of life everywhere, which means, of course, collectivization. There is one collective whole of life, and there should be one collective community of life. That’s why every such belief, and you have it in Christian Science, you have it in Unitarianism, you have it in mysticism, it always leads to a collectivist concept politically, and a pantheistic concept religiously. It’s a deadly thing.

[Audience] Well, {?}

[Rushdoony] Well, the kindliest thing you can say about them is they are fearfully muddle-headed. Yes?

[Audience] I thought you might like to know that on KLAC next week they’re going to have a couple of witches on, to answer questions on the call-in show. {?} oh, I can’t even remember what his name is. But, he said the woman who gives the {?} she’s a witch, and she’s going to bring a friend of hers who’s also a witch, and they’re going to ask him questions from the audience about witchcraft.

[Rushdoony] Well, I’ve had my share of witches. I’m not interested, but this is a part of the rising interest in occultism and in demonism, and I do believe we are going to see more and more possession, actual possession, in the years ahead. It is interesting that recently, a book was reprinted that was written in the twenties by a German scientist, {Oistroich?}, and the title is simply, Possession, and here is a man who is a scientist, an unbeliever, with not the faintest trace in Christianity, but he has come to believe in the reality of possession, and this book is again in print, and it is important. We are going to see an increasing amount of it.

[Audience] I just {?} witches on.

[Rushdoony] Well, they’ve had lectures at our universities recently, at UCLA, did they not? A series on witchcraft, or was it USC? Does anyone recall?

[Audience] I think it was UCLA.

[Rushdoony] Yes, I believe it was UCLA.

[Audience] And I’ll tell you something, I heard on the radio yesterday, this woman called in and she was so pleased that her children had been taught true Americanism, and they’d learn how to pledge allegiance to the flag, and what the meaning is, and then she went on to say that all through their school years they had been taught democracy and {?} true Americanism, and I guess they run their home this way, because there was a question whether they were going to Yosemite, and all the children voted to go to Yosemite, and father was the only one that voted against it, and this woman was so proud and so pleased of her American, democratic children, and she was really very happy with this incident, and it was all I could do to keep from crying through the radio.

[Rushdoony] Well, I’ll tell you, if you want to see Mrs. Melville climb through the TV Tuesday night watch the Joe Pyne Show. She’ll be on it speaking a few plain truths.

[Audience] {?}

[Rushdoony] Well, I think our time is over, and we stand dismissed.

End of tape